1 hour ago, JM7 said:

On paper, you could say there’s 5 straight wins there but in reality, we’re likely to drop points somewhere. West Ham is huge game given they are technically above us in the league. 

West ham are where they are because Spurs, ourselves and Liverpool have had significant dips imo. They have some good players, Lindgard has helped them, Rice has been really good, so is Antonio when fit. I just dont rate them as a European contender and if we play against them like we did yesterday we win.

Without Silva too!

32 minutes ago, CaitlinCFC said:

Do people actually do that? What would they gain from that.

I have no idea what they gain, other than tiny-minded bitterness and a weird nasty streak.  I suspect it's some inadequate 17-year old who lives with his mum and spends all his time trying to wind people up and w**king at the bimbos on Channel 4 reality shows. (but not the late night ones because he has to be up early for school now)

That is quite an elaborate judgement there 🤔

42 minutes ago, coco said:

Saturday 29th May

Just now, CaitlinCFC said:

That is quite an elaborate judgement there 🤔

I am very elaborate.  And perceptive.  And kind and generous to a fault.  And extremely tolerant of wind-up merchants sneaking in here pretending to be Chelsea and posting bollocks.

2 hours ago, enigma said:

Guy on BBC five live last night who was a Brit living in Germany and reporting on German football said Chelsea fans should enjoy it while it lasts as Tuchel doesn't normally last long at a club before it goes wrong. I mean we've heard this a lot recently, but if Tuchel does well with us then why wouldn't the board support him? Makes no sense. 

Dont think it is TT thing, is a Chelsea manager thing. From Jose to now there have been managers who have built teams that, for a period, have been brilliant. Brilliant offensive, defensive or well rounded. In the end though the tricks they use grow old, the players stop buying in to the methods and we replace the manager. Fresh ideas get them going again. Rinse and repeat. Just enjoy it while it lasts 🙂

12 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Dont think it is TT thing, is a Chelsea manager thing. From Jose to now there have been managers who have built teams that, for a period, have been brilliant. Brilliant offensive, defensive or well rounded. In the end though the tricks they use grow old, the players stop buying in to the methods and we replace the manager. Fresh ideas get them going again. Rinse and repeat. Just enjoy it while it lasts 🙂

It's not just a Chelsea thing it's a general football thing now, the days of a Ferguson are long gone.

It's not just players that crave novelty managers do aswell, they want to try different league's, different cultures and work with different players especially while they're young. As much as we'd sack Tuchel if it goes wrong he'd potentially jump at the chance of managing Real if he has a successful 2/3 years here and they then make a play for him.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

It's not just a Chelsea thing it's a general football thing now, the days of a Ferguson are long gone.

It's not just players that crave novelty managers do aswell, they want to try different league's, different cultures and work with different players especially while they're young. As much as we'd sack Tuchel if it goes wrong he'd potentially jump at the chance of managing Real if he has a successful 2/3 years here and they then make a play for him.

Fair bit we are one of the fastest on the trigger finger .

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

I have no idea what they gain, other than tiny-minded bitterness and a weird nasty streak.  I suspect it's some inadequate 17-year old who lives with his mum and spends all his time trying to wind people up and w**king at the bimbos on Channel 4 reality shows. (but not the late night ones because he has to be up early for school now)

Live abroad, run a company in UK from abroad, regular to the bridge, sit in harding upper or east middle or upper when visiting. My family are fine thank you. I hope you and yours are well and surviving the apocalypse 

56 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

I am very elaborate.  And perceptive.  And kind and generous to a fault.  And extremely tolerant of wind-up merchants sneaking in here pretending to be Chelsea and posting bollocks.

This is staggeringly hilarious. 😂😂😂😂 Do you need to talk to someone? You'll find useful numbers here, Ive used them before, really helpful. 

https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwdeU5eGj7wIVcWHmCh2iYAc7EAAYASAAEgKklvD_BwE

Edited March 9, 20215 yr by cfcwomble

Tuchel never got sacked because of lack of points or performance. In Mainz he wanted to leave in order to make the next step. He did really well there for 5 years always developed the squad and was on average in all years together Top 5 of Bundesliga with Mainz who are usually way down in the table.

In Dortmund it was a tough one with the boss who promised to keep at least one of the top 3 players (Mikyhtarian, Gündogan, Hummels). In the end all of them left and he was very unhappy with the squad afterwards. After that trouble with  Watzke (BVB CEO) started.There were some weird communication problems between him and Watzke after BVB were part of the terror attack before the Quarter Final  in CL against Monaco. In the end Watzke sacked him because he had problems with Tuchel.

At PSG he did very well, formed a great team with all the egos somehow put them together. Don't know really know why Leonardo sacked him. They didn't get along at all after he only bought useless Icardi for 50 Million and sold all of the good youth players. After a awful lot of injuries in the first half of the seasons 2020/2021(Mbappe, Neymar, Veratti and Marquinhos were missing lots of games) tons of corona case and many red cards, he had hardly a competitive squad at hand and still managed to be at the top or near (I think two points behind in Ligue 1)in all competition. 

So he never did run out of ideas or the squad didn't follow. All of this talk about him being such a difficult person after some time comes from the Watzke cause who talked a lot of sh*t after they parted. Tuchel could be with Chelsea for a long period if he gets the support from the board. Brilliant manager who will certainly win trophies. 

Edited March 9, 20215 yr by jony92

Can I just add that the defense we have played under Tuchel have been beautiful?

Everyone focus on attack when they talk about beautiful football but great defending is an art as well and what's been on display so far under Tuchel has been wonderful to see.

 

4 hours ago, jony92 said:

 

So he never did run out of ideas or the squad didn't follow. All of this talk about him being such a difficult person after some time comes from the Watzke cause who talked a lot of sh*t after they parted. Tuchel could be with Chelsea for a long period if he gets the support from the board. Brilliant manager who will certainly win trophies. 

It is obvious you know a lot about Tommy. The bit I have highlighted indicates you might not know as much about Chelsea, our board and our owner.

If Tuchel, at any point, has a run of results like Jurgen has had recently he will be gone.

Same as all the others before him. It can happen very, very quickly here.

Edited March 9, 20215 yr by just

4 hours ago, Sindre said:

Can I just add that the defense we have played under Tuchel have been beautiful?

Everyone focus on attack when they talk about beautiful football but great defending is an art as well and what's been on display so far under Tuchel has been wonderful to see.

 

Agree. Italian school of management - always fix the defence first  🙂 

I just had a random thought, in the 11 games Tommy has been in charge he has faced 3 different champions league winning managers.....and beat them all.

9 hours ago, enigma said:

Guy on BBC five live last night who was a Brit living in Germany and reporting on German football said Chelsea fans should enjoy it while it lasts as Tuchel doesn't normally last long at a club before it goes wrong. I mean we've heard this a lot recently, but if Tuchel does well with us then why wouldn't the board support him? Makes no sense. 

I think that is overblown, for example,

Quote

Tuchel publicly criticized Watzke after he agreed to UEFA's demand that the club play their Champions League quarter-final first leg match against Monaco on 12 April 2017, one day removed from the team's bus being bombed. He also reportedly expressed discontent over transfer activity, with Watzke sanctioning the departures of Hummels, Gündoğan, and Mkhitaryan, despite guarantees they would not leave. Tuchel also maintained fractured relations with club stalwarts Roman Weidenfeller, Neven Subotić, and Jakub Błaszczykowski, and aimed to replace the trio, which purportedly did not sit kindly with Watzke. Tuchel aimed to sign defender Ömer Toprak in 2016, a move allegedly blocked by Watzke and chief scout Sven Mislintat, the latter of whom was effectively banished from the training ground after an argument with Tuchel. Moreover, the club also chased midfielder Óliver Torres behind Tuchel's back in 2017. Toprak eventually joined the club following Tuchel's departure, while Torres joined Porto

Imagine how Mourinho would react to that. 

Think COVID may be helping Tuchel acclimate, you can hear him so often across the field on broadcasts.

12 hours ago, JM7 said:

Such a turnaround from under Lampard to Tuchel. Incredible really. 
 

I would love to know Tuchel has improved us technically. Our defence was awful under Lampard and now, with the same players, looks incredible. 

I don't think we were bad defensively under Lamp. A bit naive at times especially against big team, lamp prefer more movement which make your offense less predictable but harder to protect. 

Tuchel has instilled structure into offense which mean it is easier for us to press once we lose the ball, plus 32 at the back all the time mean we are safe against counter. 

The funny part is no one is talking about how bad our cb anymore. That is one of the craziest opinion, we don't have wc cb but all of our cb are good enough. 

Frank is inexperienced, Tuchel is experienced. Frank is a former super-star player, Tuchel isnt. Frank had difficulties with the details of the game, Tuchel is very detailed. Frank was more adventorous, Tuchel is more pragmatic. Frank had masses of pressure from inside and outside, Tuchel has no pressure at all (next season changes this). Frank didn't guide the players in the game, Tuchel guides them with intensity. Frank trusted the quality of players, Tuchel trusts his methods. 

There is clear manageral bounce here but on top of that Tuchel was the right appointment for the rest of the season. He had no time to think, he just did what was sensible for the side we have. Come next season he is in a completely different situation. If we manage to win FA or even CL it will transform his status and the pressure to new heights. 

Reading about his history you can see transfers are his achilles heel. He got into fights with two PSG sporting directors, the first was sacked due to that. Similar thing happened in Mainz and Dortmund. He is not fighting the players nor the fans but his own organization. There are no signs of it yet but I will be surprised if something doesn't happen in summer. We will have headlines for sure.

If someone is thinking Tuchel is the man for the long haul, think again. Brilliant manager but volatile + he is at Chelsea. 18 months which is the length of his contract is what I expect him to last.

That's not wrong in genereal but he didn't leave Mainz over transfer issues or something similiar - he wanted to leave after 5 (five!) extremely successful years. The departure did not end on a happy note but the reason was just that: he wanted to do the next step. And five years include many transfer windows. Also, the sporting director at that time did go on record, after the BVB Boss insinuated after sacking Tuchel that he was already unbearable to work with at Mainz , that this wasn't true at all -> basically a lie. He did fell out with the BVB heads mainly over three things imo:

1. They were used to the ever charming demi-god Klopp. At that time everybody thought Klopp moved the BVB on new heigths together with the Boss Watzke and the sporting director Zorc. The development in the years after Klopp (and Tuchel) show that it was basically Klopp (and his close staff ofc) lifting it mostly alone.

2. After the last desasterous season with Klopp there were obviously players within the squad that were past their prime. Very influencal players that played crucial roles during the uprising of the BVB. Those players basically revolted because they knew that Tuchel wouldn't go by name or history but trictly by talent and what a player could offer within the given system. I'll never forget two of those sitting in the TV studio - JUST AFTER WINNING THEIR  LAST FRIGGING SILVERWARE - basically crying because one of them didn't make the bench for this game. One must take into account here as well that Dortmund heavily relies/ponders to the so called traditional fan-base so a rather cut-throat performance based structure with little to no (fake) romanticism seeimingly found no place.

3. The attack on the bus. There are many stroies about what went on in the aftermath and one should note that Tuchel never ever talked about that after being sacked. He is said to have talked quite dismissive about his/some players behind closed doors while in public defended them and went against UEFA (and his own boss) that wanted the players to play the match just the following day. After being hit by a bomb on their bus. For context, that was the ISIS prime time, nobody knew what really happened and why at that time. The boss of Dortmund is politically extremely near to the then in place home secretary whose agenda was to show no fear of terrorism hence wanted no squarrel about a longer dealy or even protest against the immediate newly scheduled match. The thing is: even if it's true that Tuchel (strictly) internally criticised players that didn't want to play again, which there is no proof of at all, he sat in that very bus himself so you could also say in hisdefense he stood under some kind of shock. But openly criticising the decision by the UEFA was interpreted as a critic of his boss as well and then sh!t hit the fan. For perspective: Dortmund naturally struggled sportingly after the attack and qualification for the CL was under threat - that CL money was at that time even more instrumental and mandatory than it'd be now for them - right in front of the very important match against a direct competitor the BVB upper level launched basically a ad hominem campaign which started with an article in the very widespread "Sueddeutsche Zeitung". I almost spilled my coffee reading that in the morning right before the game. The article was written badly, extremely one sided and by a reporter very close to the upper ranks at Dortmund. That was it then.

One should note, that the BVB still made CL qualification (with a little help by the ref I'd say) and still got their last silverware in the cup final against Bayern.

 

PSG is a different beast and I don't want to write a book about it but I would just add that the signing of Mbappé and Neymar brought an incredible disbalance to the team because there was little to no money left, for their ambitions, for the other parts of the team (and Tuchel got unlucky with injury-timings of Neymar). It is said that Tuchel was the direct choice of the owner and not by the sporting director Henrique - who I think wasn't capable enough for a big club like Paris. With Leonardo it's another story but I'd just trust my belly and note that every single player who left after Leonardo's first seaon as a SD left with a bad remark about him. That would be Cavani, Thiago Silva, Eric Chupo Moting, Meunier.. Last bit: after the CL Final I believe they had just two week sor so until their first match, obviously it's a bit more difficult to process a close CL-Final defeat than a title so there was that, there were numerous Covid cases, red-cards and injuries yet he still at least brought him enough results to make CL second stage and be in direct distance to first place in the league. At that very start there were no new signing but a ton of players who left the club - when he said he needed new signings he got a slap on his wrist by Leonardo - who then mostly loaned I think three new players at the very last minute (which proved TTs point) and who played also crucial roles in the season (Kean, Florenzi and Rafinha), what also proved TTs point, because there were basically no real alternatives left and the squad just didn't have the depth of quality that would be needed to compete in the CL as expected.

 

I'm not saying TT is at no fault here or there but his negative PR is based mostly on his time at Dortmund and that framed his departure at Paris. He is very demanding and I believe can be a real pita if things don't go as expected but first I do think he did work on that / is also self-reflective. He did have some bad luck because he really got Dortmund going until the attack and was playing beautifully with PSG until his main players got injured (Verratti often, Neymar almost always in crucial times etc.)

 

 

So there it is, my TT manifesto 😉

 

Of course, if he stops winning and starts losing a ton he will be sacked. But I hope that won't be the case too soon because he really can get a team rolling and in my opinion he has great opprtunities here, eventually a bit like in Mainz, since there aren't that many old-timers or superstars present that don't really want change but to stay on the pitch. On the contrary: a very talented yet already somewhat experienced group of hungry players with a very clear and I'd think rather matter to fact upper management level with a clear power structure so much less politics like in Dortmund or at Paris (where it's said that after his first press conference, which was in the very honeymoon phase, he got a friendly visit by the entourage of Mbappé the ery next morning because they felt Tuchel didn't express the same kind of positve vibes like he did with Ney).

 

Edited March 10, 20215 yr by weetee

43 minutes ago, evissy said:

 

Reading about his history you can see transfers are his achilles heel. He got into fights with two PSG sporting directors, the first was sacked due to that. Similar thing happened in Mainz and Dortmund. He is not fighting the players nor the fans but his own organization. There are no signs of it yet but I will be surprised if something doesn't happen in summer. We will have headlines for sure.

If someone is thinking Tuchel is the man for the long haul, think again. Brilliant manager but volatile + he is at Chelsea. 18 months which is the length of his contract is what I expect him to last.

I followed Thomas Tuchel since the very beginning when he was at Mainz U19. What I can tell you is, that there won't be any problems with transfers, if the board gets the player that fit the squad. If they just buy random players (Icardi at PSG, a clear Leonardo Transfer, wasted lots of millions, does not fit Tuchels playing style at all) or letting all of the best players leave even though it was promised to keep some (BVB, PSG youth talents). Yes, then there is a Thomas Tuchel who is pissed and will be arguing and not be happy with squad. 

There were 5 years in Mainz with no transfer problems. In Dortmund there were problems with transfer because of false promises. At PSG Tuchel as Coach wasn't Henrique(first sporting director) choice  it was rather the President who chose Tuchel. Then Leonardo came in and was not to fond about Tuchel from the beginning and wanted to sign his own coach which he did with Pochettino after a difficult first half of the season. At PSG there was hardly any money for transfers left because of Neymar and Mbappe. Most of the money they spent for transfers that Tuchel seemed not fond of (Icardi, Paredes). He wanted Kante or Pogba and in the end he got Gueye...Yes Tuchel wants some saying in Transfers, which, in my opinion is normal. Actually the coach should have the major saying in transfers as it is often the case in Premier League. I know it is different at Chelsea but I think he really likes the squad he has now and only sees 1 or 2 changes in personal that could really bring this squad to the next level (like Haaland, and maybe a really good winger..).

All in all he is stubborn and always want the maximum of everyone in the club. But if they let him do his job, he will bring the results and could bring Chelsea back to the top for a couple years.

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Frank is inexperienced, Tuchel is experienced. Frank is a former super-star player, Tuchel isnt. Frank had difficulties with the details of the game, Tuchel is very detailed. Frank was more adventorous, Tuchel is more pragmatic. Frank had masses of pressure from inside and outside, Tuchel has no pressure at all (next season changes this). Frank didn't guide the players in the game, Tuchel guides them with intensity. Frank trusted the quality of players, Tuchel trusts his methods. 

There is clear manageral bounce here but on top of that Tuchel was the right appointment for the rest of the season. He had no time to think, he just did what was sensible for the side we have. Come next season he is in a completely different situation. If we manage to win FA or even CL it will transform his status and the pressure to new heights. 

Reading about his history you can see transfers are his achilles heel. He got into fights with two PSG sporting directors, the first was sacked due to that. Similar thing happened in Mainz and Dortmund. He is not fighting the players nor the fans but his own organization. There are no signs of it yet but I will be surprised if something doesn't happen in summer. We will have headlines for sure.

If someone is thinking Tuchel is the man for the long haul, think again. Brilliant manager but volatile + he is at Chelsea. 18 months which is the length of his contract is what I expect him to last.

A good analysis. Everything is lovey dovetail right now. We all know the true tests come when things go wrong and not when they are going well. A friend in need and all that. 
 

Tuchel’s guidance during the game could  easily become irritating back seat driving if he or the team lose form. That’s in the future, let’s make the most of the good times first. 

18 hours ago, axman2526 said:

West ham are where they are because Spurs, ourselves and Liverpool have had significant dips imo. They have some good players, Lindgard has helped them, Rice has been really good, so is Antonio when fit. I just dont rate them as a European contender and if we play against them like we did yesterday we win.

The table doesn't like and I think it's a diservice to West Ham to down play the fact that they're sitting 5th in the table with 27 games played. 

They finished 16th last season with 39 points. They already have 48 points this season, they've only scored 2 goals less than us this year (with a game in hand). 

David Moyes is probably in with a shout for manager of the year as long as they don't suffer a massive form dip in their last 11 games. 

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https://www.sportbuzzer.de/artikel/thomas-tuchel-paris-saint-germain-vertrag-trennung-rauswurf-leipzig-reaktionen/

In the club, Tuchel feels more and more isolated and let down by sports director Leonardo. After the defeat in the final against FC Bayern, he would have liked to continue immediately because the new season started again. But the Brazilian sent the players on vacation and the season opener was postponed. Subsequently, there was no way for Tuchel to organize a preparation for the season. The consequences have been dramatic, with a bunch of players on the injured list.

Tuchel still has the cabin at PSG behind him: he still has to go if the CL is shut down

At the beginning of October, the coach complained that the squad was too thin after the departures of Thiago Silva (Chelsea), Edinson Cavani (Manchester United) and Thomas Meunier (Borussia Dortmund) and that the goals would never be achieved with the existing team. With Danilo Pereira (FC Porto), Rafinha (FC Barcelona) and Moise Kean (FC Everton), Leonardo signed a trio within twelve hours, without the German knowing about the player's profile.

After reading this article you should not have any questions left about Tuchel's time in Paris and why he had to leave this club.

On 07/03/2021 at 08:14, Argo said:

Fantastic. This really enhances the connection Tuchel will have with the club and the supporter base.

Mourinho, Conte and Lampard are also shareholders so he's in good company.