5 hours ago, Hall said:

People only want looking for a reason to blame a player. If you really looking @ the fact that we play 4 CD in this formation then you should see why are bad today. And Kante is not AM and changing pulisic because he has 1 good game in that position with Kai.

It’s like playing Footbal managers 10 years ago and playing players out of their positions.

People have to wake up of their dreams ,

we are playing bad because of no wingback.

our system of 343 need the winger to come up and over and you can’t do that with Sarr and Christensen and waiting for a decent cross. You play with 10 player anyway because Sarr can’t pass the ball let alone shoot it in the goal. 

Unlike Lukaku, who touched 7 times the ball yesterday, Sarr did at least have one shot that went out wide by a few inches. So he did already more than our 9.

5 hours ago, Hall said:

we are playing bad because of no wingback.

Without Chilwell, James, CHO and Azpi there is obviously missing a certain quality on the wings.
On the other hand we could beat the Spuds rather convincingly three times without Chilly and Reece.
And there was a pretty exciting draw against Pool with really attractive football as well.

So I agree that the injuries of the wingbacks play a major part but it is not the only reason for the current poor displays on the pitch.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/kai-havertz/profil/spieler/309400

Look at this profile. Havertz can play every attacking position, except one. See which position Havertz is not playing: LEFT WING.

Ziyech has earned the starting position on the right wing, but the problem is that it´s the best position of  Pulisic and the preferred position of Havertz, if he cannot play through the middle.

Basically the only attacker that has successfully played on the left side is Werner playing off a real striker in Leipzig. So either play Werner - Lukaku - Ziyech and hope Lukaku acts like a real striker or play Havertz through the middle with Werner - Havertz - Ziyech.

 

So still none of our garbage play is Tuchels fault then?

1 hour ago, dkw said:

So still none of our garbage play is Tuchels fault then?

I think it is quite clear that we are playing riskless football, very little early ball, heavy possesion, conservative selection and Tuchel kept talking about not taking risky passes.

 

Quote

Thomas Tuchel last night revealed six of his Chelsea players were suffering from colds caused by the air conditioning on the flight home from Abu Dhabi.

This sounds like a very sh*t excuse to be honest. No source for the quote though so could be complete bollocks anyway. 

1 hour ago, dkw said:

So still none of our garbage play is Tuchels fault then?

Quite a few of us are baffled why Havertz was the left wing and Pulisic the attacking mid. That was a horrible call.

I’d love to sit down with TT and get him to explain this pragmatic version of football, we ain’t Barca pass you to death but brilliant at it, it’s just boring, side to side, in and out, Rinse and repeat, then he’ll whisper, “We haven’t got the players to play adventurous football like klopps Liverpool, and I’d say bollocks?

1 hour ago, Bob stark said:

conservative selection and Tuchel kept talking about not taking risky passes

Where did he do this?

Secondly, is anyone surprised we looked poor with a back four consisting of four CBs? Everyone is aware of how important fullbacks are in modern football and we have excactly zero capable fullbacks currently. It's comparable to when Liverpool lost three CBs last season and they won't on to lose six home games in a row and just generally look sh*te. But everyone knew their performances would pick up when they got their players back, and they did to no ones surprise.

Judge Tuchel when his wingbacks are back. And unless you want to be a moaner you also realize we were league leaders up until we got fecked with injuries. And we looked good doing it.

What's even more mindblowing is that some that previously have preached continuity and for giving managers time are jumping on the back of a manager who's won three titles in 12 months and have done extremely well so far at this club. But hey, everyone can be as hypocritical as they want.

Edited February 20, 20224 yr by Sindre

it's quite clear that without any good wingbacks, its really hard in modern day football. They have become very very important for the offensive game. Especially with the 3 at the back formation they are essential for the offense. The only top wingbacks are James and Chillwell when they are in form. So no wonder it hasn't been going smooth. Before the injury crisis there was mostly great football..

The thing is expectations are very high now, compared to when Tuchel came here. He has achieved much more than anyone expected and still keeps going. But, in my opinion the squad is not really title material. Its an expensive squad but most of the players just look good because Tuchel found the right system to be defensively strong. There are hardly any word class players in the squad. Maybe Kante, TS, Rüdiger and Jorginho when in form. I don't see anyone of the offensive players near world class. Most of them are decent, but IMO overpriced and not consistent. They shine from time to time but to be honest: Pulisic is still the same as in Dortmund. Werner was never the killer in front of goal at Leipzig, the opposite. Harvertz has a really good technique but that's more or less it. Lukaku is just a slow Nr.9 with a bad first touch who needs a lot of space. 

Tuchel has become a little bit more pragmatic in his coaching. When he was younger it was always normal to switch the a lot of players, and formation, substitute in halftime 3. players because he did not like what he saw. That changed a bit, I liked the dynamic way of early days a bit more, but it seems to workout still alright. What he achieved in one year in phenomenal, let him build a team and I think it is gonna be another level. Pep and Klopp had a long

Its hard to tell what transfers where Tuchels in the past as at PSG, where he did not seem happy with Leonardo which was all about transfers, so I guess he did not have much to say. He did not have a lot of money to spent either at the time. Transfers that were definitely his were Kehrer, Bernat, Choupo-Moting, Diaollo, Gueye. Bernat, Choupo, Gueye were really good transfers for the squad for little money while Kehrer and Diallo are these kind of flexible CB he was looking for but maybe not the best transfers but cleary fit the profile he liked for a 3 at the back. Icardi was clearly Leonardos transfer as I think nearly all other transfers during the time at PSG.

I can't really see Tuchel wanting Lukaku. Yes, he wanted a top striker but I don't think he was his first choice. Just by looking at the highlights of Lukaku, one can see he shines when he has a lot of space. In this possession football right now there is no space because the built up is quite slow and the opponent is back in the box by the time we attack. There are more fast transitions needed but you need the players for it. 

 

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Where did he do this?

Secondly, is anyone surprised we looked poor with a back four consisting of four CBs? Everyone is aware of how important fullbacks are in modern football and we have excactly zero capable fullbacks currently. It's comparable to when Liverpool lost three CBs last season and they won't on to lose six home games in a row and just generally look sh*te. But everyone knew their performances would pick up when they got their players back, and they did to no ones surprise.

Judge Tuchel when his wingbacks are back. And unless you want to be a moaner you also realize we were league leaders up until we got fecked with injuries. And we looked good doing it.

What's even more mindblowing is that some that previously have preached continuity and for giving managers time are jumping on the back of a manager who's won three titles in 12 months and have done extremely well so far at this club. But hey, everyone can be as hypocritical as they want.

I don't understand anyone who has watched us under Tuchel can deny this. We played back 5 against al ahly, we played with 4 cb against palace. 

We are a back 5 team who play heavy possesion football. If that does not say conservative, I don't know what is. I have said it multiple time, there is a reason why team who concede non stop under Lamp can suddenly turn into a defensive juggernaut without no reinforcement and why we can almost throw anybody in our back 3 and it just works.

Being consercative is fine, there is no wrong way to play football.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Where did he do this?

Secondly, is anyone surprised we looked poor with a back four consisting of four CBs? Everyone is aware of how important fullbacks are in modern football and we have excactly zero capable fullbacks currently. It's comparable to when Liverpool lost three CBs last season and they won't on to lose six home games in a row and just generally look sh*te. But everyone knew their performances would pick up when they got their players back, and they did to no ones surprise.

Judge Tuchel when his wingbacks are back. And unless you want to be a moaner you also realize we were league leaders up until we got fecked with injuries. And we looked good doing it.

What's even more mindblowing is that some that previously have preached continuity and for giving managers time are jumping on the back of a manager who's won three titles in 12 months and have done extremely well so far at this club. But hey, everyone can be as hypocritical as they want.

Speaking as one who is very pro changing managers when it's needed (long term managers for the sake of it is very damaging as we've seen with United, plus the longest serving manager in this league is Dyche and Burnley are likely going down) aswell as one of the few who went rogue in regards to Lampard and who's also pissed off with his constant selection of you know who I very much agree we are nowhere near the point where Tuchel's job should be under threat.

Based on my experiences online, in the field (so to speak) and at the ground I feel there's a reluctance with a significant minority (subconscious or otherwise) to take to Tuchel due to the fact he took a club legends job, it took winning the biggest prize in club football for many to admit we made the right decision even replacing Lamps with him.

The previous managers who have delievered one of the big two were universally adored, unfortunately I can't see Tuchel ever getting to that standing even if he becomes the first manager to do both.

Are we more boring now than we were under Sarri? I'd say possibly so. Absolutely woeful to watch. And I really mean that. It's become a chore to watch our games.

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2022/2/20/22942818/tuchel-reflects-on-strange-period-as-chelsea-look-to-reinstall-fluidity-and-flow

Thomas these are the things you HAVE to cope with if you want to be a longer term successful Chelsea manager. You are a top manager, at least I believe you are, so sort it out and stop playing the tiredness card, everyone is tired at this time of the season.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2022/2/20/22942818/tuchel-reflects-on-strange-period-as-chelsea-look-to-reinstall-fluidity-and-flow

Thomas these are the things you HAVE to cope with if you want to be a longer term successful Chelsea manager. You are a top manager, at least I believe you are, so sort it out and stop playing the tiredness card, everyone is tired at this time of the season.

Yes, the more games teams play, the more tired they become. 

9 hours ago, TheGermanOne said:

Without Chilwell, James, CHO and Azpi there is obviously missing a certain quality on the wings.
On the other hand we could beat the Spuds rather convincingly three times without Chilly and Reece.
And there was a pretty exciting draw against Pool with really attractive football as well.

So I agree that the injuries of the wingbacks play a major part but it is not the only reason for the current poor displays on the pitch.

We didn’t used 4 centerback  back then as backline. I agree about the poor display but this was before Lukaku’s signing already but back then mount was in shape. Kai, werner, pulisic , Odoi, and Ziyech were bad already.

Rhis year kante is also not the same.

so it’s responsible of the coach. He is good setting up defence but the attackers were always bad.

3 hours ago, CFCholland said:

Are we more boring now than we were under Sarri? I'd say possibly so. Absolutely woeful to watch. And I really mean that. It's become a chore to watch our games.

It's a lot more frustrating because one simple change would make the games watchable again. Under Sarri there was even at the peak want of entertaining games the intrege of transitioning to a more modern style of play.

This is why the Rice rumours scare me, although unlike the last big signing he will atleast work hard and die for the club £200m on two stylistic misfits will set us back years and years.

Pretty damning assessment from Shearer & Wright on motd about our attacking play. It's criminal the amount of attacks we are wasting. I wouldn't even say the passes are risky, more often than not they are a simple ball through the middle. They're just being completely missed.

7 hours ago, Argo said:

It's a lot more frustrating because one simple change would make the games watchable again. Under Sarri there was even at the peak want of entertaining games the intrege of transitioning to a more modern style of play.

 

Modern and entertaining under Sarri? LOL.

Our football under Sarri was just snoozefest. 700 million sideway passses,no penetration,  no chances until Hazard decided let's just beat my man and score, and everytime we got countered it was a big chance for the opp.

 

13 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

I’d love to sit down with TT and get him to explain this pragmatic version of football, we ain’t Barca pass you to death but brilliant at it, it’s just boring, side to side, in and out, Rinse and repeat, then he’ll whisper, “We haven’t got the players to play adventurous football like klopps Liverpool, and I’d say bollocks?

Tuchel's football is pragmatic as is Pep's. Their philosophy of football is to have the ball more than their opponent to both defend and attack. When you have the ball the opponent doesn't have a chance to score so you defend well. When you have the ball the percentages are on your side to create enough chances to win. After losing the ball you react quickly to get it back. That it is basically. 

We haven't been able to cope without our wingbacks. On top of that our crosses and penetrating passes lack quality. We are basically horrible in the attacking areas. If we scored one or two early goals we'd win most of our games. We defend well enough apart from lapses here and there. 

Either we get our wingbacks back or Tuchel trains the team to be more intelligent and ruthless. I hope we go for that latter route.

8 hours ago, rtwelch said:

Pretty damning assessment from Shearer & Wright on motd about our attacking play. It's criminal the amount of attacks we are wasting. I wouldn't even say the passes are risky, more often than not they are a simple ball through the middle. They're just being completely missed.

I've been seeing that in just about every game ... it's like our whole team have zero attacking instincts, or have plain forgotten how to play basic football.

I think we've overspent on fees and overpaid on wages for more than a few duds ... 

9 hours ago, Hall said:

We didn’t used 4 centerback  back then as backline. I agree about the poor display but this was before Lukaku’s signing already but back then mount was in shape. Kai, werner, pulisic , Odoi, and Ziyech were bad already.

Rhis year kante is also not the same.

so it’s responsible of the coach. He is good setting up defence but the attackers were always bad.

Ultimately it's always going to be Tuchel's responsibility. After all he wanted a new striker, maybe not Lukaku as the first choice but as the second he didn't mind. He said it would give us another tactical option which we didn't have, so he thought the main thing to improve upon was that position despite winning the CL with a false 9 and heavy press.

He has a good defense and a solid midfield, in the summer he must try to improve the attack and not lose the good defense, it wouldn't be the end of the world if our midfield gets worse a bit if the attack gets better. 

19 hours ago, ElTerrible said:

https://www.transfermarkt.de/kai-havertz/profil/spieler/309400

Look at this profile. Havertz can play every attacking position, except one. See which position Havertz is not playing: LEFT WING.

Ziyech has earned the starting position on the right wing, but the problem is that it´s the best position of  Pulisic and the preferred position of Havertz, if he cannot play through the middle.

Basically the only attacker that has successfully played on the left side is Werner playing off a real striker in Leipzig. So either play Werner - Lukaku - Ziyech and hope Lukaku acts like a real striker or play Havertz through the middle with Werner - Havertz - Ziyech.

 

No that is not true - Pulisic's best positin is the left wing and so is for CHO. If given a choice most people on here will play - 

                            Lukaku/Werner

Pulisic/CHO          mount/havertz     Ziyech 

 

as out front 4.. unfortunately we seem to be doing anything but that.

4 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Modern and entertaining under Sarri? LOL.

Our football under Sarri was just snoozefest. 700 million sideway passses,no penetration,  no chances until Hazard decided let's just beat my man and score, and everytime we got countered it was a big chance for the opp.

 

We were still dominating games and doing things like playing out of the back under pressure which was quite the novelty given how we could barely string two passes together in 17/18.

I'm going to give TT the benefit of the doubt and say the weekend was a ruse and the UCL is where he will play his real formation/system to bring out the best in our attackers. I.e actually playing them in their positions. If this isn't the case I'm shocked because Saturday's team selection was beyond bizarre.

No CHO or Mount which is a shame since they would both start alongside Ziyech for me. Either way I think he has to drop Lukaku at some point not because of club politics not because of his record low amount of touches or his failure to impose himself. He needs to do it for the sake of the team, if Lukaku is an option why have we not seen any other options.

Or better yet why do players continue to not play the early ball to either Kai, Timo or Lukaku when they play up top. I know for a fact he tells them to move the ball quickly in between the lines and to penetrate so why don't they do it?