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Jose Mourinho thread

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And as time has gone on I've always admitted that I don't like Jose and I am bitter, but there are reasons why that is the case. I certainly do not have an agenda against him.

I used to love the bloke.

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It really isn't immature, I've come across many neutral discussions that have brought up the possibility. I don't care if such a thought makes me sound immature on here.

I'm sorry, but it is immature. it makes no logical sense.

 

we both think he should have been sacked. here's my take on it before he actually lost his job:

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/22192-josé-mourinho-confirmed-as-chelsea-manager/?p=1117695

 

you should be able to see the difference between this take, or many others, and yours.

 

what you are suggesting is that he intentionally sabotaged himself to take the united job. it is a ridiculous theory and I shouldn't have to explain point by point why it has no logical basis, but you seem absolutely convinced of it to the point of myopia. 

 

the reason it doesn't stack up is because of how high risk a strategy it would be.

 

the questions you need to answer or explain in defence of your theory of intentional self sabotage are:

 

1) why did he decide to wait until this season to sabotage himself when moyes left after one year?

 

2) why did he sign a new contract in the summer, which made it harder, politically and financially, for the club to sack him?

 

3) how could he guarantee van gaal would not qualify for the champions league / have the success required to retain his job?

 

4)  how could he have been sure that the reputational damage inflicted on his public profile by the carneiro affair would have been ignored by utd, especially given the misgivings of people like charlton in their boardroom in relationship to his off pitch conduct?

 

5) how could he be sure that the reputational damage done to his standing as a manager would not have hurt him in his pursuit to become utd manager, bearing in mind pochettino had not signed a new deal and guardiola, an on the record admirer of utd, had not determined his future at the point of his sacking?

 

6) having a bad season and no job lowers one's cachet. why would anyone do this intentionally?

 

7) how could he guarantee that people in the chelsea set up would not pass information on to their united counterparts that could potentially damage his ability to manage their squad effectively?

 

8) why did he not simply resign at any point, thus avoiding all the associated reputational damage that last season entailed?

 

9) why would he decide to sabotage himself as the reigning premier league champion with a better side and a champions league place? at that point it would have been a step down in what he could achieve in the short term.

 

10) how could he have been sure the opportunity to attack the medical staff publicly would have come up, particularly so early in the season? were hazard, courtois and the medical staff colluding in this conspiracy?

 

11) how could he have guaranteed that the form of the champions would've suffered so dramatically?

 

12) why did he manage to qualify the squad from the champions league group stage given history shows that failing at this stage could have triggered an immediate sacking?

 

13) if he wanted to guarantee bad results surely logic suggests he would've played the players he didn't rate over the ones he relied on to win the title?

 

14) if he had dramatically changed his approach to management or training why, at no stage, did the dressing room leak information to that end?

 

15) how many players colluded in this conspiracy?

 

16) why did mourinho ask for any players to be signed in the summer if he intended on a) weakening the squad and b) leaving anyway?

 

17) mourinho wanted john stones for us a year ago and now wants him for united.  if he signed him last season he would not have been able to take him to united for next season. so why go after him for a club you intended to leave?

 

18) mourinho's perceived short term thinking goes against the supposed long term values of manchester united. how would leaving so soon after signing a four year deal placate their worries?

 

19) if he agreed with united to sabotage chelsea in order to go there, how would united be able to appoint him knowing he could potentially do the same to them, given his capricious nature?

 

20) if utd were in on the conspiracy why didn't they hire him immediately after he became available? he would've had the chance to determine their future in european competition rather than leave it in the hands of van gaal.

 

I mean, it makes literally no sense whatsoever.

Edited by g3.7

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His media value is huge. They can't really restrain him in the pressers. They just have to let him be him. That usually gets him into trouble. And it is not media he is in trouble with anyway. He plays with them most of the time.

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Of course he can make players play bad just as much as he can make them play better. If you give them rubbish training methods and uninspiring roles and are just a plain d"ck then the players will play bad. It happens.

Haha you're deluded, he can't make a player do as many bad things as ours were doing.

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I'm sorry, but it is immature. it makes no logical sense.

we both think he should have been sacked. here's my take on it before he actually lost his job:

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/22192-josé-mourinho-confirmed-as-chelsea-manager/?p=1117695

you should be able to see the difference between this take, or many others, and yours.

what you are suggesting is that he intentionally sabotaged himself to take the united job. it is a ridiculous theory and I shouldn't have to explain point by point why it has no logical basis, but you seem absolutely convinced of it to the point of myopia.

the reason it doesn't stack up is because of how high risk a strategy it would be.

the questions you need to answer or explain in defence of your theory of intentional self sabotage are:

1) why did he decide to wait until this season to sabotage himself when moyes left after one year?

2) why did he sign a new contract in the summer, which made it harder, politically and financially, for the club to sack him?

3) how could he guarantee van gaal would not qualify for the champions league / have the success required to retain his job?

4) how could he have been sure that the reputational damage inflicted on his public profile by the carneiro affair would have been ignored by utd, especially given the misgivings of people like charlton in their boardroom in relationship to his off pitch conduct?

5) how could he be sure that the reputational damage done to his standing as a manager would not have hurt him in his pursuit to become utd manager, bearing in mind pochettino had not signed a new deal and guardiola, an on the record admirer of utd, had not determined his future at the point of his sacking?

6) having a bad season and no job lowers one's cachet. why would anyone do this intentionally?

7) how could he guarantee that people in the chelsea set up would not pass information on to their united counterparts that could potentially damage his ability to manage their squad effectively?

8) why did he not simply resign at any point, thus avoiding all the associated reputational damage that last season entailed?

9) why would he decide to sabotage himself as the reigning premier league champion with a better side and a champions league place? at that point it would have been a step down in what he could achieve in the short term.

10) how could he have been sure the opportunity to attack the medical staff publicly would have come up, particularly so early in the season? were hazard, courtois and the medical staff colluding in this conspiracy?

11) how could he have guaranteed that the form of the champions would've suffered so dramatically?

12) why did he manage to qualify the squad from the champions league group stage given history shows that failing at this stage could have triggered an immediate sacking?

13) if he wanted to guarantee bad results surely logic suggests he would've played the players he didn't rate over the ones he relied on to win the title?

14) if he had dramatically changed his approach to management or training why, at no stage, did the dressing room leak information to that end?

15) how many players colluded in this conspiracy?

16) why did mourinho ask for any players to be signed in the summer if he intended on a) weakening the squad and b) leaving anyway?

17) mourinho wanted john stones for us a year ago and now wants him for united. if he signed him last season he would not have been able to take him to united for next season. so why go after him for a club you intended to leave?

18) mourinho's perceived short term thinking goes against the supposed long term values of manchester united. how would leaving so soon after signing a four year deal placate their worries?

19) if he agreed with united to sabotage chelsea in order to go there, how would united be able to appoint him knowing he could potentially do the same to them, given his capricious nature?

20) if utd were in on the conspiracy why didn't they hire him immediately after he became available? he would've had the chance to determine their future in european competition rather than leave it in the hands of van gaal.

I mean, it makes literally no sense whatsoever.

I need a laptop to reply to this post fully which I will do. Nice to see you took the effort. Must mean I'm still being taken seriously on this forum :) Edited by KonaKai Blue

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I'm sorry, but it is immature. it makes no logical sense.

we both think he should have been sacked. here's my take on it before he actually lost his job:

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/22192-josé-mourinho-confirmed-as-chelsea-manager/?p=1117695

you should be able to see the difference between this take, or many others, and yours.

what you are suggesting is that he intentionally sabotaged himself to take the united job. it is a ridiculous theory and I shouldn't have to explain point by point why it has no logical basis, but you seem absolutely convinced of it to the point of myopia.

the reason it doesn't stack up is because of how high risk a strategy it would be.

the questions you need to answer or explain in defence of your theory of intentional self sabotage are:

1) why did he decide to wait until this season to sabotage himself when moyes left after one year?

2) why did he sign a new contract in the summer, which made it harder, politically and financially, for the club to sack him?

3) how could he guarantee van gaal would not qualify for the champions league / have the success required to retain his job?

4) how could he have been sure that the reputational damage inflicted on his public profile by the carneiro affair would have been ignored by utd, especially given the misgivings of people like charlton in their boardroom in relationship to his off pitch conduct?

5) how could he be sure that the reputational damage done to his standing as a manager would not have hurt him in his pursuit to become utd manager, bearing in mind pochettino had not signed a new deal and guardiola, an on the record admirer of utd, had not determined his future at the point of his sacking?

6) having a bad season and no job lowers one's cachet. why would anyone do this intentionally?

7) how could he guarantee that people in the chelsea set up would not pass information on to their united counterparts that could potentially damage his ability to manage their squad effectively?

8) why did he not simply resign at any point, thus avoiding all the associated reputational damage that last season entailed?

9) why would he decide to sabotage himself as the reigning premier league champion with a better side and a champions league place? at that point it would have been a step down in what he could achieve in the short term.

10) how could he have been sure the opportunity to attack the medical staff publicly would have come up, particularly so early in the season? were hazard, courtois and the medical staff colluding in this conspiracy?

11) how could he have guaranteed that the form of the champions would've suffered so dramatically?

12) why did he manage to qualify the squad from the champions league group stage given history shows that failing at this stage could have triggered an immediate sacking?

13) if he wanted to guarantee bad results surely logic suggests he would've played the players he didn't rate over the ones he relied on to win the title?

14) if he had dramatically changed his approach to management or training why, at no stage, did the dressing room leak information to that end?

15) how many players colluded in this conspiracy?

16) why did mourinho ask for any players to be signed in the summer if he intended on a) weakening the squad and b) leaving anyway?

17) mourinho wanted john stones for us a year ago and now wants him for united. if he signed him last season he would not have been able to take him to united for next season. so why go after him for a club you intended to leave?

18) mourinho's perceived short term thinking goes against the supposed long term values of manchester united. how would leaving so soon after signing a four year deal placate their worries?

19) if he agreed with united to sabotage chelsea in order to go there, how would united be able to appoint him knowing he could potentially do the same to them, given his capricious nature?

20) if utd were in on the conspiracy why didn't they hire him immediately after he became available? he would've had the chance to determine their future in european competition rather than leave it in the hands of van gaal.

I mean, it makes literally no sense whatsoever.

Boom

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can you stop quoting it / edit it into a spoiler lads?

 

p.s. konakai, it doesn't require a point by point answer- what I'm saying is there were too many uncontrollable variables to make your theory plausible. you should be able to see he made a couple of critical mistakes and then negative momentum took over.

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Point #3 of g3's post is what I was going to say. LVG would have had to have been in on the conspiracy, getting himself sacked to make way for Mourinho. Erm I don't think so.

Maybe Mourinho just got found out as someone who cracks up under pressure.

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No doubt about it being a great "6 months". But I have to say, it was more the player's character/guts/balls and a LOT of footballing luck which saw us winning the CL. Jose has led us to 3 out of our 5 PL. He was the manager who built the spine of the team which won us so many things (DD, JT, Lamps, Cole, Cech, Essien etc).

 

I don't know how unpopular this opinion will be but I will say it nonetheless. I want Jose here for a 3rd term. His legacy can not be a season where we finished 10th and the fact that we were 17th when he left. Yes, mistakes were made by all, Manager, board, Players, but I just hope that 4 months does not tarnish what has been a great journey.

RDM did lead CFC to a FA Cup and CL trophy. Pretty impressive by my books.

 

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You're actually deluded. There was no crusade. What led me to create an account was foolish fans deflect all blame from him onto for various Eva, then the board. It was like Jose could do no wrong.

I was annoyed that Jose was embarrassing the club in press conferences, creating in wars and playing the same players e.g Ivan who were playing rubbish every week.

People were still defending him so I decided to step in and make my own point. The only ones with an agenda were those basically using Emanalo as a scapegoat. They seem certain that Jose's targets were Pogba and Stones and that but not successfully signing them (a difficult task) that Jose was betrayed.

Anyway I'm glad Jose is throwing vitrol on this club on this club with him saying "forget the last 3 years and Utd are the dream no one else can match". Will be a sure burn for those that believed his every word as if he is god.

 

Ignoring the rest of your joke post, how is pouring by vitrol by him saying that bar the last 3 years MUFC are a dream no one can match?

 

In case you havent forgotten, MUFC are only the most successful club in the history of British football.  You can call us deluded, but I dont any of us lost sight of that obvious fact.  Take any manager with no personal feelings towards any club and give them a choice of any club in the BPL to manage (3 years ago lol) and I'd bet the house atleast 8 out of 10 pick MUFC.  They have the biggest budget, the have the most "prestige", they have the biggest global fan base etc etc and we arent talking about decades ago like LFC but the here and now.  Ya I enjoy seeing them lose but from a professional perspective and especially circa 3 years ago, MUFC are the dream team to manage/play for.

 

But then surely you weren't expecting something along the lines of "Oh, I love Chelsea this MUFC thing is just until Roman forgives me" or "Meh, MUFC is a decent club" were you?  Cause that would truly be deluded.  He is their manager now it's expected he pander to them atleast a little. It is an entertainment business.

 

 

 

Of course he can make players play bad just as much as he can make them play better. If you give them rubbish training methods and uninspiring roles and are just a plain d"ck then the players will play bad. It happens.

 

So if we just get a manager who makes them happy we will walk the BPL every season but get a manager who makes them sad and its relegation form?  I think even I give this current group of Chelsea players more credit than that.

 

Curious on your feelings about the theory Hazard was intentionally having a poor season to get a move to RM in the face of your dead set belief Mourinho did the same to get a move to MUFC.  Care to share?

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My barrier to really loving Jose is that although he of course can win trophies, when he's not you as a fan get very little payoff. What is there to fall back on if he's not getting silverware? Youth development? Good football? Serenity around the club? Even at the best of times, like when we won the league, we only played good football for 3 months and the rest was a boring slog. Not 100% his fault because our defense sucked, but still not exactly inventive. 

 

And his tactics in the CL since the Inter win have looked ancient. 

Edited by cuppaT

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But football is about winning trophies the record books aren't gonna say Wenger won jack all from 2005-2014 but brought through youth and attractive football.

 

Football is about way more than trophies. We as a club do not need to go about winning trophies with his constant poison and dragging our name through the mud every other week. Wenger has done plenty of good for Arsenal so I don't see the point of going there. Yes, no club that size wants so long without a trophy, and the period of saving money for the stadium looks like it took Wenger's edge away as a manager but let's not pretend he's a rubbish manager. He's probably past it and they need a change, but look at Man U for the dangers of changing a very long term manager without thinking it though.

Edited by cuppaT

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Also, I'm glad he's managing us now and not in 2013 as he's been to the circuses at Chelsea and Real, and there aren't any better clubs out there for him to manage in terms of clubs offering longevity and stability.

 

This is a real quote from redcafe and why you won't see much sense from Man U fans until it hits the fan. Do they realise they're had 4 managers since 2013 now! 

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Football is about way more than trophies. We as a club do not need to go about winning trophies with his constant poison and dragging our name through the mud every other week. Wenger has done plenty of good for Arsenal so I don't see the point of going there. Yes, no club that size wants so long without a trophy, and the period of saving money for the stadium looks like it took Wenger's edge away as a manager but let's not pretend he's a rubbish manager. He's probably past it and they need a change, but look at Man U for the dangers of changing a very long term manager without thinking it though.

Of course there's more but trophies are always the end goal otherwise what's the point?

Who said he was rubbish? I merely used his baron run as an example to get my point across. If it's a cup if finishing top 4 give me the cup every time

Jose may have been a twat in his last year here but end of the day were we still winning he'd still be here. It's as simple as that.

Edited by Bobbywoodhogan

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I'm sorry, but it is immature. it makes no logical sense.

we both think he should have been sacked. here's my take on it before he actually lost his job:

http://www.theshedend.com/topic/22192-josé-mourinho-confirmed-as-chelsea-manager/?p=1117695

you should be able to see the difference between this take, or many others, and yours.

what you are suggesting is that he intentionally sabotaged himself to take the united job. it is a ridiculous theory and I shouldn't have to explain point by point why it has no logical basis, but you seem absolutely convinced of it to the point of myopia.

the reason it doesn't stack up is because of how high risk a strategy it would be.

the questions you need to answer or explain in defence of your theory of intentional self sabotage are:

1) why did he decide to wait until this season to sabotage himself when moyes left after one year?

2) why did he sign a new contract in the summer, which made it harder, politically and financially, for the club to sack him?

3) how could he guarantee van gaal would not qualify for the champions league / have the success required to retain his job?

4) how could he have been sure that the reputational damage inflicted on his public profile by the carneiro affair would have been ignored by utd, especially given the misgivings of people like charlton in their boardroom in relationship to his off pitch conduct?

5) how could he be sure that the reputational damage done to his standing as a manager would not have hurt him in his pursuit to become utd manager, bearing in mind pochettino had not signed a new deal and guardiola, an on the record admirer of utd, had not determined his future at the point of his sacking?

6) having a bad season and no job lowers one's cachet. why would anyone do this intentionally?

7) how could he guarantee that people in the chelsea set up would not pass information on to their united counterparts that could potentially damage his ability to manage their squad effectively?

8) why did he not simply resign at any point, thus avoiding all the associated reputational damage that last season entailed?

9) why would he decide to sabotage himself as the reigning premier league champion with a better side and a champions league place? at that point it would have been a step down in what he could achieve in the short term.

10) how could he have been sure the opportunity to attack the medical staff publicly would have come up, particularly so early in the season? were hazard, courtois and the medical staff colluding in this conspiracy?

11) how could he have guaranteed that the form of the champions would've suffered so dramatically?

12) why did he manage to qualify the squad from the champions league group stage given history shows that failing at this stage could have triggered an immediate sacking?

13) if he wanted to guarantee bad results surely logic suggests he would've played the players he didn't rate over the ones he relied on to win the title?

14) if he had dramatically changed his approach to management or training why, at no stage, did the dressing room leak information to that end?

15) how many players colluded in this conspiracy?

16) why did mourinho ask for any players to be signed in the summer if he intended on a) weakening the squad and b) leaving anyway?

17) mourinho wanted john stones for us a year ago and now wants him for united. if he signed him last season he would not have been able to take him to united for next season. so why go after him for a club you intended to leave?

18) mourinho's perceived short term thinking goes against the supposed long term values of manchester united. how would leaving so soon after signing a four year deal placate their worries?

19) if he agreed with united to sabotage chelsea in order to go there, how would united be able to appoint him knowing he could potentially do the same to them, given his capricious nature?

20) if utd were in on the conspiracy why didn't they hire him immediately after he became available? he would've had the chance to determine their future in european competition rather than leave it in the hands of van gaal.

I mean, it makes literally no sense whatsoever.

10-4. I was thinking about this last night. Its convenient to say he's sabotaged himself here in order to get the United job but when you think about, or lay it out like you have, it makes no sense why he would even try to get sacked.

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Listen we should be grateful to the Mou years and what success and enjoyment he bought to us all, but  he started to implode, and for the first time the "Wizard" and his book of spells failed to work, we can sit back and watch the inevitable drama unfold/replay, the Pep and Wenger angst will be something we won't have to endure, well at least not with TSO at the helm, he knows he has to worry about Pep, Wenger, Klopp, Poch, Claudio and now the new Italiano, bring it on, Bring him on.....

Edited by Ballack & Blu

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