1 hour ago, Victor90 said:

Potter has the worst win % since Roman right? I think Lampard wasn't too far behind, maybe he can break that record! 

Not statistically possible, even if Frank doesn't win a single game as interim.

Frank is 44/85 at the moment. 51.8% win per cent. If he loses/draws the next 10 games, (assuming we don't get past Madrid), he'll go to 44/95, or 46.3%. Even if we somehow win the Champions League with a run of draws and penalty shoot out wins, he would still only drop to 44.9% (44/98).

Potter, even with his decent CL results, is only on 37.5%.

I love Frank. Absolutely amazing player. 

But as a manager he missed a lot of steps that others take. Arteta for example worked as an assistant to Pep for years, Tuchel was an assistant to Ragnick and made his way from Mainz U-19 to senior side. Frank skipped most of these steps. He worked for a few months and then got the job at Derby. I feel If he had a little more experience at academy or as assistant he'd have been a better manager than he is now. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11953001/CHELSEA-SPECIAL-REPORT-club-think-f-mess.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailsport

1 hour ago, enigma said:

I find the criticism towards Boehly/Clearlake a bit weird and hindsighted because so many fans were raving about Boehly & Co's spending on players such as Koulibaly and Sterling, then Enzo, Madueke, Mudryk (snatching him from Arsenal etc) and now people are criticising the owners for doing too much in a short period of time etc. This isn't on the new owners as much as it is on the previous owner. We were left in a poor position when Roman left with a lot of the squad to be fixed. Remember it was the old ownership that let Rudiger's contract run down, allowed Giroud to no longer be a part of the team, never got back up for Kante, the list goes on. Maybe Boehly & Co tried to do too much in a short time, but it was pretty much needed because of previous failure of ownership. People seem to forget (conveniently or not) that we started off the season with poor results under Tuchel too. No saying things would have got much better under him. Granted I never wanted him sacked to begin with, but none of us know what went on behind the scenes for the true reasons behind him leaving. 

Please explain how it was the exiled owner that was at fault for Rudiger wanting an exorbitant pay rise and then running his contract down when the club refused to meet his demands.

I also don't get this narrative about the appalling way the club was run and how the squad needed a complete overhaul, two years after being European champions and a year after winning the world club championship.

It often seems to be conveniently forgotten in some areas that Abramovich had just unveiled a dramatic development of the club and whole area and had got planning consent prior to being exiled by the UK government, prior to Covid and then the sanctions and forced sale.

I also don't think RA should shoulder all of the blame for the way Bruce Buck and Marina ran the club over the last couple of years with regards to the clubs transfer policy

There was no need to come change to a back 4. We were progressing with a back 3 and would have beaten liverpool easily in midweek if havertz and kovacic had their shooting boots on.  Bruno wasn't bad in his first game and was surely better than whatever Frank tried to pull off today. 

1 hour ago, enigma said:

I find the criticism towards Boehly/Clearlake a bit weird and hindsighted because so many fans were raving about Boehly & Co's spending on players such as Koulibaly and Sterling, then Enzo, Madueke, Mudryk (snatching him from Arsenal etc) and now people are criticising the owners for doing too much in a short period of time etc. This isn't on the new owners as much as it is on the previous owner. We were left in a poor position when Roman left with a lot of the squad to be fixed. Remember it was the old ownership that let Rudiger's contract run down, allowed Giroud to no longer be a part of the team, never got back up for Kante, the list goes on. Maybe Boehly & Co tried to do too much in a short time, but it was pretty much needed because of previous failure of ownership. People seem to forget (conveniently or not) that we started off the season with poor results under Tuchel too. No saying things would have got much better under him. Granted I never wanted him sacked to begin with, but none of us know what went on behind the scenes for the true reasons behind him leaving. 

I wasn't one of those people. I always liked their optimism, but I soon raised my concerns because the money spent on the type of players they brought in was crazy. It's mostly potential. It's not like when Abramovich arrived and signed a mix of both potential and established senior players. The most senior players Boehly signed were an out of favour Sterling and washed up players like Koulibaly and Aubameyang. Where are the Makelele's, the Crespo's, the Carvalho's? They have just gone and spent crazy money on mostly unheard of talent like Mudryk, Madueke, Chukwuemeka, Badiashile, Santos, D.Fofana and another one to arrive in the summer, Gusto. Most of these players cost more than Hazard, just think about that. It's crazy, they aren't anywhere close to his level. Even the ones that are looking good like W.Fofana and Enzo.

The only signing I was really happy with was Enzo, but like I said, look how much we had to pay to get him. No club pays that......well, apart from a club like Barcelona, and it's not exactly the model we want to be following when you look at the trouble they got themselves into.

I have also said this many times, but I just refuse to buy into the rubbish about the squad being a mess before they arrived, and I don't know why some fans have swallowed that excuse. It wasn't perfect, far from it, but can you say it was worse than Newcastle's? Look at them now, they sit 3rd in the table, and it's because they are well managed on and off the pitch.

You bring up Tuchel's results, but 3 wins and a draw in 6 games isn't a disaster, the draw was against Tottenham by the way, a game we totally dominated and had robbed from us by the ref. It wasn't a great start to the season, but it wasn't a disaster either and definitely recoverable. If we had stuck with Tuchel, I would have fancied him to at least have us go on a 3 game winning streak now and then, even if we had to do it the ugly way. I don't think for a second we would be sitting 11th in the table with him still in charge.

2 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Please explain how it was the exiled owner that was at fault for Rudiger wanting an exorbitant pay rise and then running his contract down when the club refused to meet his demands.

I also don't get this narrative about the appalling way the club was run and how the squad needed a complete overhaul, two years after being European champions and a year after winning the world club championship.

It often seems to be conveniently forgotten in some areas that Abramovich had just unveiled a dramatic development of the club and whole area and had got planning consent prior to being exiled by the UK government, prior to Covid and then the sanctions and forced sale.

I also don't think RA should shoulder all of the blame for the way Bruce Buck and Marina ran the club over the last couple of years with regards to the clubs transfer policy

Did we ever replace Hazard? No. Did we replace Costa? No. Fabregas? No. Kante was getting injured more often and aging, but did they think about buying a sufficient back up? No. This is the problem, Roman never decided to strengthen further our team. Domestically we had been poor season after season. This isn't some surprise that we are performing how we are tbh. Okay, maybe being 11th is a surprise, but we were near relegation zone under Mourinho ffs. We were 5th under Conte the season after winning the league. No other top club with ambitions to challenge for the league and top four has been in the position we are in two times in the past decade.

Can you seriously imagine Man City or Man Utd in 11th place or close to the relegation zone any time soon? I can't. The previous board bought a bunch of average players and hoped for the best, but it worked out poorly. Now we have a bunch of players still on the books like Bakayoko and Drinkwater all because they were signings with very little thought put into them tbh. The previous board bought Lukaku to be the answer to our woes, but no, that didn't work out because Tuchel seemed to fall out with him. 

11 minutes ago, enigma said:

Did we ever replace Hazard? No. Did we replace Costa? No. Fabregas? No. Kante was getting injured more often and aging, but did they think about buying a sufficient back up? No. This is the problem, Roman never decided to strengthen further our team. Domestically we had been poor season after season. This isn't some surprise that we are performing how we are tbh. Okay, maybe being 11th is a surprise, but we were near relegation zone under Mourinho ffs. We were 5th under Conte the season after winning the league. No other top club with ambitions to challenge for the league and top four has been in the position we are in two times in the past decade.

Can you seriously imagine Man City or Man Utd in 11th place or close to the relegation zone any time soon? I can't. The previous board bought a bunch of average players and hoped for the best, but it worked out poorly. Now we have a bunch of players still on the books like Bakayoko and Drinkwater all because they were signings with very little thought put into them tbh. The previous board bought Lukaku to be the answer to our woes, but no, that didn't work out because Tuchel seemed to fall out with him. 

I get the point you are making, but I would say that we did replace those players, but the purchases that we have made ove the last few years have been poor.

Abramovich did want the club to start living within its means which fair enough if he was okay to spend all his money here but couldn't live here.

From my memory Emenalo was rubbish and had to go. Then when he went Marina was buying sh*t and Emenalo maybe wasn't to blame.

Now that she has gone and this lot have just ploughed in without any apparent research of the market.

There has been a continual decline due to poor decisions made and a poor transfer policy. That I will admit, but I don't really feel its down to the owner.

6 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I wasn't one of those people. I always liked their optimism, but I soon raised my concerns because the money spent on the type of players they brought in was crazy. It's mostly potential. It's not like when Abramovich arrived and signed a mix of both potential and established senior players. The most senior players Boehly signed were an out of favour Sterling and washed up players like Koulibaly and Aubameyang. Where are the Makelele's, the Crespo's, the Carvalho's? They have just gone and spent crazy money on mostly unheard of talent like Mudryk, Madueke, Chukwuemeka, Badiashile, Santos, D.Fofana and another one to arrive in the summer, Gusto. Most of these players cost more than Hazard, just think about that. It's crazy, they aren't anywhere close to his level. Even the ones that are looking good like W.Fofana and Enzo.

The only signing I was really happy with was Enzo, but like I said, look how much we had to pay to get him. No club pays that......well, apart from a club like Barcelona, and it's not exactly the model we want to be following when you look at the trouble they got themselves into.

I have also said this many times, but I just refuse to buy into the rubbish about the squad being a mess before they arrived, and I don't know why some fans have swallowed that excuse. It wasn't perfect, far from it, but can you say it was worse than Newcastle's? Look at them now, they sit 3rd in the table, and it's because they are well managed on and off the pitch.

You bring up Tuchel's results, but 3 wins and a draw in 6 games isn't a disaster, the draw was against Tottenham by the way, a game we totally dominated and had robbed from us by the ref. It wasn't a great start to the season, but it wasn't a disaster either and definitely recoverable. If we had stuck with Tuchel, I would have fancied him to at least have us go on a 3 game winning streak now and then, even if we had to do it the ugly way. I don't think for a second we would be sitting 11th in the table with him still in charge.

fully agreed. Some were willing to tolerate "short term pain" with Potter but not with Tuchel, a way better manager.

What a crazy world we live in

7 hours ago, enigma said:

Did we ever replace Hazard? No. Did we replace Costa? No. Fabregas? No. Kante was getting injured more often and aging, but did they think about buying a sufficient back up? No. This is the problem, Roman never decided to strengthen further our team. Domestically we had been poor season after season. This isn't some surprise that we are performing how we are tbh. Okay, maybe being 11th is a surprise, but we were near relegation zone under Mourinho ffs. We were 5th under Conte the season after winning the league. No other top club with ambitions to challenge for the league and top four has been in the position we are in two times in the past decade.

Can you seriously imagine Man City or Man Utd in 11th place or close to the relegation zone any time soon? I can't. The previous board bought a bunch of average players and hoped for the best, but it worked out poorly. Now we have a bunch of players still on the books like Bakayoko and Drinkwater all because they were signings with very little thought put into them tbh. The previous board bought Lukaku to be the answer to our woes, but no, that didn't work out because Tuchel seemed to fall out with him. 

What is this obsession with blaming the previous board and owner for everything that's wrong with the club NOW?

Did they make mistakes in the transfer market? Absolutely. From Bakayoko to Zappacosta to Drinkwater to Lukaku, the sh*t list continues. But they were also in charge of  the club that finished in the top four regularly and were winning trophies, also fairly regularly.

The current owners right from the start  sacked everybody from the old board, top to bottom, then sacked the CL winning manager, spent an absolute fortune on players that flopped and we are currently 11th, breaking all the anti records in the club's history. They have turned a respectable top European club into a laughingstock, and it has absolutely f**k all to do with the sins of the previous regime.

 

Edited April 9, 20233 yr by abramovich

22 minutes ago, abramovich said:

What is this obsession with blaming the previous board and owner for everything that's wrong with the club NOW?

Did they make mistakes in the transfer market? Absolutely. From Bakayoko to Zappacosta to Drinkwater to Lukaku, the sh*t list continues. But they were also in charge of  the club that finished in the top four regularly and were winning trophies, also fairly regularly.

The current owners right from the start  sacked everybody from the old board, top to bottom, then sacked the CL winning manager, spent an absolute fortune on players that flopped and we are currently 11th, breaking all the anti records in the club's history. They have turned a respectable top European club into a laughingstock, and it has absolutely f**k all to do with the sins of the previous regime.

 

Maybe it is deflection, blame it all on Roman and his mistakes for where we are now, in the hope these owners turn it around, otherwise they look like less stable versions of the Glazers, as at least those money sucking parasites have never put United at risk of financial ruin.

7 hours ago, The Don Antonio said:

There was no need to come change to a back 4. We were progressing with a back 3 and would have beaten liverpool easily in midweek if havertz and kovacic had their shooting boots on.  Bruno wasn't bad in his first game and was surely better than whatever Frank tried to pull off today. 

Bruno was continuing Potter’s work, which was 7 months of training. Frank had one training session.

I honestly think Frank will improve our attack and we’ll score more than we would have if Potter stayed.

I just find it pathetic to write him off after one training session! Yes he’s not an elite coach but one training session for christs sake 

We started quite well and went more direct which was refreshing. However it soon faded. 
 

I like what Frank said and thought it was spot on. We need more aggression and to win individual battles. We’re getting bullied. 

8 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I wasn't one of those people. I always liked their optimism, but I soon raised my concerns because the money spent on the type of players they brought in was crazy. It's mostly potential. It's not like when Abramovich arrived and signed a mix of both potential and established senior players. The most senior players Boehly signed were an out of favour Sterling and washed up players like Koulibaly and Aubameyang. Where are the Makelele's, the Crespo's, the Carvalho's? They have just gone and spent crazy money on mostly unheard of talent like Mudryk, Madueke, Chukwuemeka, Badiashile, Santos, D.Fofana and another one to arrive in the summer, Gusto. Most of these players cost more than Hazard, just think about that. It's crazy, they aren't anywhere close to his level. Even the ones that are looking good like W.Fofana and Enzo.

The only signing I was really happy with was Enzo, but like I said, look how much we had to pay to get him. No club pays that......well, apart from a club like Barcelona, and it's not exactly the model we want to be following when you look at the trouble they got themselves into.

I have also said this many times, but I just refuse to buy into the rubbish about the squad being a mess before they arrived, and I don't know why some fans have swallowed that excuse. It wasn't perfect, far from it, but can you say it was worse than Newcastle's? Look at them now, they sit 3rd in the table, and it's because they are well managed on and off the pitch.

You bring up Tuchel's results, but 3 wins and a draw in 6 games isn't a disaster, the draw was against Tottenham by the way, a game we totally dominated and had robbed from us by the ref. It wasn't a great start to the season, but it wasn't a disaster either and definitely recoverable. If we had stuck with Tuchel, I would have fancied him to at least have us go on a 3 game winning streak now and then, even if we had to do it the ugly way. I don't think for a second we would be sitting 11th in the table with him still in charge.

All your points are about short term. Tuchel, new players... maybe we are building for long term here.

5 minutes ago, evissy said:

All your points are about short term. Tuchel, new players... maybe we are building for long term here.

Long term planning doesn't fit into the vocabulary of the new money "fans" we seem to have picked up, who feel entitled to instant success NOW and see only binary win/lose, good/bad. There are no shades of grey with a large cohort of our "fans".

 

Edited April 9, 20233 yr by nonotnowjim

19 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Long term planning doesn't fit into the vocabulary of the new money "fans" we seem to have picked up, who feel entitled to instant success NOW and see only binary win/lose, good/bad. There are no shades of grey with a large cohort of our "fans".

 

I think that many  including the owners, forget that long term planning also doesn't fit into the vocabulary of the governing bodies when you spend significantly more than your income.

No business can survive with an operating model like that. My company can't say that we are going to make massive losses for the next couple of years and break financial rules, but we'll be back stronger at some point. No business can do that, the market and regulators will fight against that.

Long term visions are fine but you have to achieve this within a short term framework and the reality is that no club can survive spending 600m in the short term and produce what we have been seeing thus far.

I am not saying I know the answer but I am think that a lot of us are rightly concerned at the way this club has been run since the takeover.

Edited April 9, 20233 yr by WhiteWall

9 hours ago, DG19 said:

I love Frank. Absolutely amazing player. 

But as a manager he missed a lot of steps that others take. Arteta for example worked as an assistant to Pep for years, Tuchel was an assistant to Ragnick and made his way from Mainz U-19 to senior side. Frank skipped most of these steps. He worked for a few months and then got the job at Derby. I feel If he had a little more experience at academy or as assistant he'd have been a better manager than he is now. 

Yeah I think star players have been given too much of a pass when it comes to management. There are obvious advantages to having played the game, but there’s a hell of a lot more to the coaching role. The cases of Lampard, and perhaps Gerrard and others, should force a rethink.

Chelsea have scored 29 prem. goals this season, Haaland has scored 31

Whoever takes this job next summer, has got a big job on their hands. 

32 minutes ago, Kev56 said:

Chelsea have scored 29 prem. goals this season, Haaland has scored 31

Well yeah, but he's ugly.

31 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Whoever takes this job next summer, has got a big job on their hands. 

Give a quality manager this squad and he'll do well just like everyone else has done prior to Potter.

Potter ruined us so much so it will take time to recover but there is no doubt that a good manager is the key here, you don't go from being a CL winner and consistantly a top 4 team to this due to the players, it's all about training, tactics and gameplan, meaning management.

If I were Lampard I would be so disappointed in the attitude of some of those players, the absolute lack of effort from player like Sterling, Felix and Havertz. Gallagher and Cucurella had the effort but they're just not good enough. As someone said, whoever takes over has a big job on their hands 

10 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Give a quality manager this squad and he'll do well just like everyone else has done prior to Potter.

Potter ruined us so much so it will take time to recover but there is no doubt that a good manager is the key here, you don't go from being a CL winner and consistantly a top 4 team to this due to the players, it's all about training, tactics and gameplan, meaning management.

Why do clubs buy and train players if they have no impact on the results?

12 minutes ago, SwedishEntity said:

Why do clubs buy and train players if they have no impact on the results?

I never said the players have no impact I'm pointing out just how poorly our management has been,  it's how you use the players, at the highest level every player has the skill it's how you train the team and make the team play, the difference is in the work behind the scenes. Long gone are the days where you could just buy a player and your problems would be solved. If you're Potter that has no clue how to use the players, it won't matter who is signed and the training obviously won't have any effect.

Edited April 9, 20233 yr by Gol15

13 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

If I were Lampard I would be so disappointed in the attitude of some of those players, the absolute lack of effort from player like Sterling, Felix and Havertz. Gallagher and Cucurella had the effort but they're just not good enough. As someone said, whoever takes over has a big job on their hands 

Your right but they are not the only ones the game against Liverpool the other night was proof. Both sets of players have just in the last two years played in the biggest games in football CL finals, World Cups etc. When it comes to a mid table clash they don't care there's nothing to play for no glory it's the worse thing about modern football players who ponce about for 90 minutes and get paid ridiculous amounts of money while fans in a cost of living crisis also pay ridiculous money to watch them under perform.