DL is in decline. Of that there is no doubt 

How on earth he was granted a two year deal was down no doubt down to  Saris influence indeed the deal was announced on May 19 some 10 days before the EL final.

Sari leaving changed just about everything and no doubt the whole youth thing stalls if you’ve a 32 year old not great CD blocking the pathway add to that your probably committed to paying out £10 million in wages to a player who the new manager sees as maybe 4th choice.

Arsenal won’t pay big my guess is around £10 million but when you factor in he could have walked on a free then saving wages and getting a fee which will probably mean other than wages Luiz then he will have bought in transfer income which cancels out the fees we paid for him. Then for me it’s tie to wave a cheery good bye and yes he may be of benefit to Arsenal but it ain’t bad business for Chelsea.

Rumours re the price tag seem a little off and if it is 8mill that does seem a great deal for Arsenal, however if we were going to have a clear out now is the time; we need to move on as a club and accept that experienced players will be leaving in the next couple of years while we bring the youth along.  Many of us here on the forum wanted to see that happen and now it appears to be the case a few are perhaps getting a bit nervous.  Lets be honest, the way Everton are spending and the improvement of Wolves and even Leicester to an extent, getting into the top 6 may not be as easy as many believe regardless of whether we play the kids or keep the likes of Luiz and perhaps one or two others that were looking for a move.  I for one am looking forward to clearing out the deadwood, including Luiz and watching the kids thrive and grow...and anyway does anyone really care where these older players go...they are going to end up somewhere and don't forget, any team in the PL is a rival especially this season.

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

We sold Mata and Matic when they were past their peak (yes Mata was only 26 but he was never going to hit his 2012 heights again). Everyone says United won't do the same but i bet if we bid over the odds for Lingard or one of their sh*te CBs OGS would drive them here himself.

Mata and Matic were a bigger deal to us than Lingard, Jones and Smalling are to United. Mata was 2 times player of the year and Matic was 1st team regular when we sold them. It would be better to compare Mata and Matic to somebody like Martial, I would bet anything that United would never sell him to us. If Martial said he wanted to join Chelsea, United wouldn't even consider it. Even if we offered more than any club outside of England, they wouldn't sell him to us. 

If David Luiz wants to go to Arsenal, shame on him. That's the first thing. We have a manager that loves Chelsea, we have a backroom staff that all love Chelsea, we're creating a culture of people playing for the shirt. We want undying love for Chelsea, and it's going to be fantastic, that's why we're all excited. No more Moratas no more Sarris no more any of them. Sadly it looks like Luoz falls into that category, despite professing his love for Chelsea. The slightest knock back and he wants out, rather than fighting for his spot. If so, ship him out. He's no good for us and he's no good for Frank. He's talented he has lots of positive qualities but he also has lots of negative ones. If he's focused and disciplined and committed and happy, you have a player, a flawed player, but a player. Strong, aggressive, passionate, good in the air good on the ground. He'll be an asset to Arsenal, by and large, until he gets a knock back, at which point you see the other side. Good riddance if true. Ashley Cole, Billy Gallas, Petr Cech etc etc. We always seem to get the better of any deals with Arsenal.

Agitating for a move to Arsenal. Tut tut tut. Shame on you.

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

Mata and Matic were a bigger deal to us than Lingard, Jones and Smalling are to United. Mata was 2 times player of the year and Matic was 1st team regular when we sold them. It would be better to compare Mata and Matic to somebody like Martial, I would bet anything that United would never sell him to us. If Martial said he wanted to join Chelsea, United wouldn't even consider it. Even if we offered more than any club outside of England, they wouldn't sell him to us. 

Mata was relegated to Oscar's understudy by the time we sold him and Conte already came out and said he was replacing Matic and that he was just going to fill in until Baka was ready so in that context Drinkwater was an adequate to play such a part time role (infact he was a better player than NM the two years leading up to those moves. Had we made Matic play in a setup he wasn't going to be wanted for much longer when he had a chance to be part of Jose's new spine he would have been very disruptive.

While that's a fair point re Lingard i would say Lukaku would be a fairer comparison. I reckon if we or any rival put in a serious bid for him now United would sell given how disruptive he's being.

I was at SB today for work and all around the stadium all of the Chelsea and Nike advertising, billboards and such like is splattered with David Luiz’s face everywhere...

Gonna be a right faff to sort all that out!

25 minutes ago, Argo said:

We sold Mata and Matic when they were past their peak (yes Mata was only 26 but he was never going to hit his 2012 heights again). Everyone says United won't do the same but i bet if we bid over the odds for Lingard or one of their sh*te CBs OGS would drive them here himself.

Mata was past his peak? funny considering he’d been the Chelsea players mvp in the 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 seasons and then was sold in January 2014. Plus from August 2013 until he was sold Mourinho left him out of the lineup all the time. Matic was much better than Baka or anyone we’ve tried to replace him with. 

Also he was still 25 at the time I believe since his birthday is in April and we sold him in January. 

Edited August 7, 20196 yr by IndianaBlue85

3 minutes ago, CFCCAN said:

Rumours re the price tag seem a little off and if it is 8mill that does seem a great deal for Arsenal, however if we were going to have a clear out now is the time; we need to move on as a club and accept that experienced players will be leaving in the next couple of years while we bring the youth along.  Many of us here on the forum wanted to see that happen and now it appears to be the case a few are perhaps getting a bit nervous.  Lets be honest, the way Everton are spending and the improvement of Wolves and even Leicester to an extent, getting into the top 6 may not be as easy as many believe regardless of whether we play the kids or keep the likes of Luiz and perhaps one or two others that were looking for a move.  I for one am looking forward to clearing out the deadwood, including Luiz and watching the kids thrive and grow...and anyway does anyone really care where these older players go...they are going to end up somewhere and don't forget, any team in the PL is a rival especially this season.

Do you really need to ask that? Luiz has started and won 3 major European finals for us, no other player in our history has achieved that with the club. Fans get attached to players, it would be weird for you not to care where he was sold to.

I want us to play youth as much as the next person, but I don't want us to settle for mediocrity. It's great that people have a lot of faith in these youngsters, but let's get real, they aren't all going to do a Harry Kane and suddenly turn into top Premier League players. They were all playing in the Championship last season, it's a world of difference from playing in the Premier League. I would much rather they learned by playing alongside experienced players like Luiz for a few seasons.

Just now, IndianaBlue85 said:

Mata was past his peak? funny considering he’d been the Chelsea players mvp in the 2011/2012 and 2012/2013 seasons and then was sold in January 2014. Plus from August 2013 until he was sold Mourinho left him out of the lineup all the time. Matic was much better than Baka and I honestly don’t know what Lingard or anyone else has to do with us selling our players to other rival teams  

Also he was still 25 at the time I believe since his birthday is in April and we sold him in January. 

His form fell off in 2013 and wasn't in the plans of the new manager, he also hasn't got remotely close to this 2012 form with United. The point with Lingard is if we offer silly money for an average player (which Matic very much was in 2017)  United will sell. It's easy to say in hindsight Matic was better but he was the weak link in our title winning side and Baka at Monaco was displaying the traits we were missing with Matic (energy, defensive astuteness and driving the ball forward).

The only time we've ballsed up selling to a rival was Sturridge, the rest of them have not even remotely come back to haunt us.

He must be kicking up a stink if a legend and former teammate tells him to stay away from training.

Luiz is a badge kisser when he’s happy but a badge burner when things go south.

Meh he’s past his best and is on silly money so if this is it then so bet it.

It’s not ideal and the price is dirt cheap but at the end of the day he not only wants to leave but he has chosen Arsenal as his next club.

Selling to a rival again isn’t good but he would of asked his agent to make the move to Arsenal happen.

If he is creating a bad atmosphere by sulking then good on Lampard for not putting up with it.

Luiz is a good player but we haven’t been able to turn him into a top class defender, at least the players we are left with are teachable and have a chance of improving as defenders.

TBH I was more upset about the Mata and Sturridge transfers.

Why is everyone going crazy about £8 million fee?

Its not our money in any case, we can’t spend it until next summer in reality anyway so what does it matter really? An extra 10 million on the fee will change nothing short term and long term we make that up after a few CL games. 

If he wants out, our new manager doesn’t want him around and at 32 we know his value will not increase then why keep him.

Shame he has went about it this way, he messed up his last stint with us and was lucky enough to get a 2nd chance but has made a bigger stink this time around it looks like.

A Geezer eh? please

5 minutes ago, 2211 said:

It’s not ideal and the price is dirt cheap but at the end of the day he not only wants to leave but he has chosen Arsenal as his next club.

Selling to a rival again isn’t good but he would of asked his agent to make the move to Arsenal happen.

If he is creating a bad atmosphere by sulking then good on Lampard for not putting up with it.

Luiz is a good player but we haven’t been able to turn him into a top class defender, at least the players we are left with are teachable and have a chance of improving as defenders.

TBH I was more upset about the Mata and Sturridge transfers.

Mata, Sturrudge, Cech,

In general, players who left that I wanted to remain:

Robben. I definitely wanted to have him hang about but injuries was always an issue.

The only other guy I can think of who I wanted to keep for longer was Crespo. 

He was great when he played but barely played when under contract here. 

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

Do you really need to ask that? Luiz has started and won 3 major European finals for us, no other player in our history has achieved that with the club. Fans get attached to players, it would be weird for you not to care where he was sold to.

I want us to play youth as much as the next person, but I don't want us to settle for mediocrity. It's great that people have a lot of faith in these youngsters, but let's get real, they aren't all going to do a Harry Kane and suddenly turn into top Premier League players. They were all playing in the Championship last season, it's a world of difference from playing in the Premier League. I would much rather they learned by playing alongside experienced players like Luiz for a few seasons.

Whoa...hang on Scott, you know I agree and like your posts most of the time, however I do have to respectfully disagree with you on this one.  Put the shoe on the opposite foot for a minute re your comment of fans getting attached to players...do you really think that players at this level are truly attached to the fans? probably 99% don't give a toss, it's their career and football is a business where they want to make as much cash as they can with their short careers, although this perhaps is not entirely the case with Luiz if the reports are true and that he has a bust up with Frank and wants out.  

Unfortunately when any business changes direction there is generally a downside at the beginning as the change takes place until things take an upward turn, patience is always needed; unfortunately though you can't have your cake and eat it so to speak, I for one do not expect to finish in the top 4 given those around us have strengthened, Luiz or no Luiz.  As a club we will go through some pain this year no doubt and at times we may witness mediocrity...but it can't be any worse than the number of games of mediocrity and even worse than that at times under Sarri and some of his predecessors; the young players need to learn and grow, which they will not do in the U23 or some bottom feeding PL club like Newcastle or Brighton etc; and its not like Frank is likely to play 4-5 young players each game, I'm sure he will bed them in and with the experience of Jodie alongside, I am confident that things will not be as bad as some think. We have a heck of a squad and a good solid mixture of experience and rawness; yes we will stumble and fall every now and then and every loss will be a teachable moment for both Frank and the team...All I hope is that Frank does not fall into the trap of experiencing a few losses and then dumping the kids.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/07/david-luiz-refuses-train-chelsea-attempt-force-move-arsenal/

Has anyone thought that part of Luiz agreeing to sign two years in the first place was that it was agreed he could leave upon request. 

This is a guy who could have left for Arsenal for free a couple of months ago, and we're going to get £8M for pushing some paper around? 

Pretty good business if you ask me. 

Or.. Chelsea could go back on its word and make him rot in the reserves... Personally, I'd rather let him go. 

All in theory of course, but I know as much as anyone else around here jumping to conclusions based on less than all the facts. 

Oh, and let's get Willian that two year contract like Luiz ASAP ?

 

1 hour ago, CFCCAN said:

its not like Frank is likely to play 4-5 young players each game

I don't think he'll have much choice now. Can we even field a full team of older experienced players with the squad so light and getting lighter each week it seems.

The message is: the new boss doesn't play. 

2 hours ago, Chelsbear said:

He must be kicking up a stink if a legend and former teammate tells him to stay away from training.

Luiz is a badge kisser when he’s happy but a badge burner when things go south.

Meh he’s past his best and is on silly money so if this is it then so bet it.

Maybe just maybe this could not all be Luiz fault ..... you sign a new contract you are happy to have committed to the club and then have the rug pulled from under you by a cheeky Le Arse bid ... you hope the club/manager say thanks for the calll but not going to happen but they say sure how much ?? reckon I would be p*ssed off  too

 

That said Cech may have told Le Arse he is possibly available if things are not going well in training ....

 

Edited August 8, 20196 yr by Tea Bar Boy

Sort of puts me off signing Brazilians they seem to get awfully stroppy when things don’t go their way, look at Naymar as well.

Maybe because they are from poor backgrounds and become such hero’s as the country is football mad that they just get big ballooned egos.

Mind you SSB and William as well always seem very humble in interviews, but it does seem Latin players in general get the handbags out at the first hint if something they don’t like ?????

Guess it’s like diving as well just different football cultures, different ideas of what’s ok, what’s annoying is English players are becoming divas when it comes to transfers and are diving more now as well, it’s certainly not a sport with many JT type characters anymore, body on the line and loyal as a dog, lots and lots of girlie stuff going on. 

3 hours ago, Chelsbear said:

Why is everyone going crazy about £8 million fee?

Its not our money in any case, we can’t spend it until next summer in reality anyway so what does it matter really? An extra 10 million on the fee will change nothing short term and long term we make that up after a few CL games. 

If he wants out, our new manager doesn’t want him around and at 32 we know his value will not increase then why keep him.

Shame he has went about it this way, he messed up his last stint with us and was lucky enough to get a 2nd chance but has made a bigger stink this time around it looks like.

A Geezer eh? please

Machismo. When the variation between the initially rumoured price tag and the one leaked a few hours later is 120% (or thereabouts) you instinctively feel like we're being mugged off.

Granted, he's and old and rapidly depreciating asset, but given his contract length and the fact that Arsenal are desperate for a centre half it's a very underwhelming figure. But when you start to factor in the amount we'll save on wages (assuming he's one of the top 5 or 6 paid players at the club in the rung below Kante?) it does start to make a modicum of sense.

Really, though, it's not as if we actually need the money and we're not ditching him for financial reasons. But still. Why not take Arsenal for every penny we can get, not as if they have any other obvious targets on the go. Make em beg, I say.

Edited August 8, 20196 yr by Charles Ryder

2 hours ago, CFCCAN said:

Whoa...hang on Scott, you know I agree and like your posts most of the time, however I do have to respectfully disagree with you on this one.  Put the shoe on the opposite foot for a minute re your comment of fans getting attached to players...do you really think that players at this level are truly attached to the fans? probably 99% don't give a toss, it's their career and football is a business where they want to make as much cash as they can with their short careers, although this perhaps is not entirely the case with Luiz if the reports are true and that he has a bust up with Frank and wants out.  

Unfortunately when any business changes direction there is generally a downside at the beginning as the change takes place until things take an upward turn, patience is always needed; unfortunately though you can't have your cake and eat it so to speak, I for one do not expect to finish in the top 4 given those around us have strengthened, Luiz or no Luiz.  As a club we will go through some pain this year no doubt and at times we may witness mediocrity...but it can't be any worse than the number of games of mediocrity and even worse than that at times under Sarri and some of his predecessors; the young players need to learn and grow, which they will not do in the U23 or some bottom feeding PL club like Newcastle or Brighton etc; and its not like Frank is likely to play 4-5 young players each game, I'm sure he will bed them in and with the experience of Jodie alongside, I am confident that things will not be as bad as some think. We have a heck of a squad and a good solid mixture of experience and rawness; yes we will stumble and fall every now and then and every loss will be a teachable moment for both Frank and the team...All I hope is that Frank does not fall into the trap of experiencing a few losses and then dumping the kids.

I wish I shared the same optimism. 

4 hours ago, Argo said:

His form fell off in 2013 and wasn't in the plans of the new manager, he also hasn't got remotely close to this 2012 form with United. The point with Lingard is if we offer silly money for an average player (which Matic very much was in 2017)  United will sell. It's easy to say in hindsight Matic was better but he was the weak link in our title winning side and Baka at Monaco was displaying the traits we were missing with Matic (energy, defensive astuteness and driving the ball forward).

The only time we've ballsed up selling to a rival was Sturridge, the rest of them have not even remotely come back to haunt us.

That period by Mourinho was the worst thing that happened to chelsea since Roman took over. Yes we won the league but we lost mata, de bruyne, salah and others and replaced them with Matic. The fantastic Chelsea togetherness was very tested by all that. Mata had plenty left to give. Anyhow we could have used luiz at least for a couple of months but now we can move on. Me I think tomori should get more of a chance and rudigier is definitely a better all round pick than luiz when fit. I like luiz he is fun to watch, reads the game, has great skill on the ball and an excellent long pass. But then there is the lack of speed, inevitable stuffups etc. 

2 minutes ago, ozboy said:

That period by Mourinho was the worst thing that happened to chelsea since Roman took over. Yes we won the league but we lost mata, de bruyne, salah and others and replaced them with Matic. The fantastic Chelsea togetherness was very tested by all that. Mata had plenty left to give. Anyhow we could have used luiz at least for a couple of months but now we can move on. Me I think tomori should get more of a chance and rudigier is definitely a better all round pick than luiz when fit. I like luiz he is fun to watch, reads the game, has great skill on the ball and an excellent long pass. But then there is the lack of speed, inevitable stuffups etc. 

I've always wondered what would have happened with KDB had Mata went first.