43 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

But, but, but he won us 17 matches all on his own.  Google and Youtube prove it.

 

Oh, and that's me who actually thought he didn't play that badly last night, except when he had to tackle anyone or be in the right place to stop a donkey like Shelvey lumbering through midfield.

Its time you just accepted that you've got a massive anti-Jorginho agenda and that he is the best midfielder to play for Chelsea since Frank Lampard.

Anything less is treasonous. As punishment you'll be forced to watch endless tapes explaining the regista position until you see the error in your ways and appreciate his greatness.

I also think he has played well recently. The new system suits him. 

2 hours ago, dkw said:

Still dont see what he actually brings to the team that pretty much every other midfielder we have can do, and more. Completely overshadowed by Kovacic lately to the point he just sort of meanders through games. People celebrating his displays is odd as he hasnt done anything of note in any of the games. How many assists does he have, how many through balls, chances created, defensive wins, shots, anything? Second half we had to bring Kante on to cover for his defensive inadequacies as even Newcastle were getting through us.

So I`ll ask all his little weird fanboys again, what does he actually bring to the team that others cant do?

The thing is we are winning, and I'm a firm believer of backing our players, especially when the team are winning. However, there is largely a lot of this I have to agree with. Watching yesterdays match especially, but to be fair every match under Tuchel, I don't actually see what Jorginho brings that any other midfielder couldn't. He literally passes it no more than 2 yards every time, doesn't drive with the ball, doesn't play expansive passes, doesn't really provide much block to the defense when they are are attacking at full pace. He is literally just there to keep the ball ticking over, with sideward and backwards passes that don't actually progress our game. I honestly think were it not for Kovacic doing most of the work in that midfield, this would be highlighted even more. Anyway Jorginho is clearly a favourite of Tuchel and will not be going anywhere soon, so we just got to back him, and hope he can perform in the bigger games to come. One thing about him is he has a good football brain, and does try to get stuck in.  

For me the best thing about him is that he complements Kovacic very well. They always play well together and therefore they are also our best midfield pairing. 

 

First half was decent second half he was poor i thought.

I thought it was obvious that Kovacic only plays well because Jorginho tells him what to do all the time 🙂 . The pointing isn't pointless after all LOL

I'd quite like to see a Billy and Kovacic pivot in this current 3-4-2-1 formation, with Mount and Havertz ahead of them, and Werner at CF.

48 minutes ago, Sindre said:

For me the best thing about him is that he complements Kovacic very well. They always play well together and therefore they are also our best midfield pairing. 

 

People that don't see what Jorginho brings to our team don't know what structure and stability means - For every press towards Jorginho it meant that Kovacic was free, they complement each other perfectly and I have never seen Kovacic playing so well without Jorginho.

All off the following arguments are put to sleep:

- Jorginho is our biggest problem

- Jorginho doesn't fit for this league

18 games undefeated with him in the starting lineup in a row 

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

People that don't see what Jorginho brings to our team don't know what structure and stability means - For every press towards Jorginho it meant that Kovacic was free, they complement each other perfectly and I have never seen Kovacic playing so well without Jorginho.

I assume what you mean is that Kovacic knows that if he stands 5 yards behind or to the left or right of Jorginho then he will get the ball, and then he can start one of his mazy dribbles forwards ?

Edited February 16, 20215 yr by Sexyfootball

As others have said idk what he really brings to the team BUT with him and Kovacic together it just works. Kovacic always has him to pass the ball to because Jorginho understands Kovacic and they seem happy so why brake them up. 🙂

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

I assume what you mean is that Kovacic knows that if he stands 5 yards behind or to the left or right of Jorginho then he will get the ball, and then he can start one of his mazy dribbles forwards ?

You seem to have forgotten that time when Kovacic couldn't do anything Hull the whole second half. He was marked out in the second half and couldn't do absolutely anything, against a Championship team.

When Kante does a 5 yard pass he's amazing, but when Jorginho does it he's pathetic - I get it, don't come to me with your bias because fact is that Jorginho has done well under 3 managers now, only you and other "proper fans" here still prefer to bash him even when we're winning, pathetic lot.

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

You seem to have forgotten that time when Kovacic couldn't do anything Hull the whole second half. He was marked out in the second half and couldn't do absolutely anything, against a Championship team.

When Kante does a 5 yard pass he's amazing, but when Jorginho does it he's pathetic - I get it, don't come to me with your bias because fact is that Jorginho has done well under 3 managers now, only you and other "proper fans" here still prefer to bash him even when we're winning, pathetic lot.

I'm only pulling your leg Gol.

And for what it is worth, Kante is well behind Jorginho in my personal pecking order LOL

Jorgi and Kovacic have been a really good pairing under TT. Honestly think Kante has to make do with the bench.

Combination is working well at moment, don't think Tuchel will break it up just for the sake of Kante. With 3 defenders behind him, even when he lost possession a few times yesterday, no real damage was done as we have the numbers to recover.

No Jorginho in the starting line up, we go in behind at half time and drop two points....

I rate him, he's not perfect far from it but its what he allows the team to do. Especially Kovacic when he's not in the team others have to do the job he does which is sit and protect the defense.

27 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

No Jorginho in the starting line up, we go in behind at half time and drop two points....

You took the words right out of Gol’s mouth!

26 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

I rate him, he's not perfect far from it but its what he allows the team to do. Especially Kovacic when he's not in the team others have to do the job he does which is sit and protect the defense.

But he's terrible defensively and slow. I get what you're saying to a point Kova does look better beside him. 

Seems odd to play someone just to make someone else look better though. 

Not sure there's been a more divisive player for us in a long time. 

Why he did not start? Has Tuchel come out with a reason yet?

I'm not saying Joringho starting would have made Zouma be any less stupid (Perhaps might have done if rumours of his leaderships qualities are to be believe but I doubt it), just saying there was no reason to change what has already been working so well. If he is tired then you start him and take him off around 60/70 mins, as much as I like him Jorginho isn't someone you bring on when you are looking to change the game/grab a goal. 

7 minutes ago, Dr Gonzo said:

But he's terrible defensively and slow. I get what you're saying to a point Kova does look better beside him. 

Seems odd to play someone just to make someone else look better though. 

Not sure there's been a more divisive player for us in a long time. 

He's not terrible defensively. He's just slow, there's a difference. His interceptions and positioning is top notch, just in this league you need pace to go along with that.

4 minutes ago, Dr Gonzo said:

But he's terrible defensively and slow. I get what you're saying to a point Kova does look better beside him. 

Seems odd to play someone just to make someone else look better though. 

Not sure there's been a more divisive player for us in a long time. 

He also helps establish a passing rhythm within the team. He does have his limitations but one thing he does bring to the team is a calmness in possession. Without him we had no real tempo today losing possesion frequently with basic passes.

I feel for Tuchel and the squad today because he has to rotate at some point but clearly this system needs very specific personnel, and for whatever reason he is hesitant to change the system (fear of losing presumably).

To be honest I was dreading some of the post hoc ergo propter hoc analysis of the game (we dropped points when Jorginho didn't start, therefore the lack of Jorginho is the reason we dropped points), but I will say one thing: his God-given immobility does bring the best out of Kovačić.

15 minutes ago, Remodez said:

Why he did not start? Has Tuchel come out with a reason yet?

I'm not saying Joringho starting would have made Zouma be any less stupid (Perhaps might have done if rumours of his leaderships qualities are to be believe but I doubt it), just saying there was no reason to change what has already been working so well. If he is tired then you start him and take him off around 60/70 mins, as much as I like him Jorginho isn't someone you bring on when you are looking to change the game/grab a goal. 

Have you looked at our schedule? We cannot start every player every game and then just take him off at 60/70 mins, because we have got only 3 substitutions. 

16 minutes ago, Dr Gonzo said:

But he's terrible defensively and slow. I get what you're saying to a point Kova does look better beside him. 

Seems odd to play someone just to make someone else look better though. 

Not sure there's been a more divisive player for us in a long time. 

Terrible defensively? That’s just silly, his interceptions and ability to win possession is very good. As good as he is the main problem I have with Jorginho  is sometimes he wants too much time on the ball and if he loses it he’s too slow to run and win it back, but I still think we are a much better team with him in it.

 

And to your point about kovacic, the reason he looks better alongside Jorginho is because Kova is able to focus on his strengths. Jorginho holds his position well, dictates the play in midfield and gives Kovacic more freedom to run with the ball whereas with Kante who runs around like a headless chicken at times Kovacic has to make up for it.

That’s not me hating on Kante btw, he’s useful to have in the squad, it’s just my observation as to why the Kova and Kante pairing doesn’t work.

48 minutes ago, Dr Gonzo said:

But he's terrible defensively and slow. I get what you're saying to a point Kova does look better beside him. 

Seems odd to play someone just to make someone else look better though. 

Not sure there's been a more divisive player for us in a long time. 

Not since Torres!

23 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

Terrible defensively? That’s just silly, his interceptions and ability to win possession is very good. As good as he is the main problem I have with Jorginho  is sometimes he wants too much time on the ball and if he loses it he’s too slow to run and win it back, but I still think we are a much better team with him in it.

 

And to your point about kovacic, the reason he looks better alongside Jorginho is because Kova is able to focus on his strengths. Jorginho holds his position well, dictates the play in midfield and gives Kovacic more freedom to run with the ball whereas with Kante who runs around like a headless chicken at times Kovacic has to make up for it.

That’s not me hating on Kante btw, he’s useful to have in the squad, it’s just my observation as to why the Kova and Kante pairing doesn’t work.

Totally agree on Kova and Kante not working. But I'd take Kante over Kova and Jorginho everyday of the week. The problem is neither seem to work with Kante.

I'm terms of Jorginho's defensive abilities, how many times have we seen people just walk past him. 

Strange decision not to start him given the winning run we had been on. Even stranger decision to bring him on when we were chasing the win. 

Not a knock on Jorginho but Tuchel was wrong both to leave him out of the starting XI and to bring him off the bench.