23 hours ago, g3.7 said:

I don't think the stats indicate that a good player is more likely to make a good manager (and good players start out with the advantages I've outlined). 

Dont misunderstand me, I'm not criticising lamps, im criticising the club- if you are responsible for hiring a manager with blooding young players in mind, how high up the list of appointable candidates do you honestly place lamps at this stage in his career? 

Personally, i don't think he gets into the top ten, even factoring in his history at the club. 

It's lazy by the club - we could have given him more time away from the club to cut his teeth, why was it essential to appoint him now? 

I'm not criticising Lamps either but if the club could have attracted a quality/more experienced manager they  would have. I know all our managers get good pay offs when they leave but the clubs circumstances at the start of this campaign were tricky at best. We just lost our best player and couldn't buy any new players for a year. No decent coach who wasn't looking for a pay off would have taken the position. The transfer ban was the fault of the club and they are responsible for the ban. They had to get somebody because Sarri wanted out and Frank ticked the "keep the fans happy" box. There's no way the club would have taken a losing Championship play off manager under any other circumstances. Yes he showed a bit of promise and had some good results at Derby but not enough for a Premier League team other than Chelsea to appoint him.

It wasn't lazy by the club. It was clever, as the crowd would have turned on any other new manager after a few bad results. Try to imagine how you would feel if say Simeone or Allegri were presiding over this start to the season. Its not easy I know but we all have a warm fuzzy feeling right now because its Frank.

If the mission this season was to lock down that 4th spot at all cost, Lampard probably wasn't the best choice. However, if Roman does have a long term view ( like 2 years) , he's made the right decision to give Lampard a go, get the fans on board and give the youth a run. Given the transfer ban, there were no big name managers wanted to risk their necks, so Lampard was really a no brainer. Yes, the season could end in a disaster, so seriously does anyone want a Jose or Moyes in this mess right now?

On 04/09/2019 at 10:55, g3.7 said:

It's lazy by the club - we could have given him more time away from the club to cut his teeth, why was it essential to appoint him now? 

Wasn't essential but it was a bit of a perfect storm. 

Sarri wanted out so we needed to appoint a new manager. We had a transfer ban and was selling our best player... So the mandate for the new manager coming in was to work with what we already had because there wasn't going to be any new faces. The way to supplement the squad numbers was to use academy players. 

So who better could we have appointed to oversee this cultural change than someone who spent 13 years playing at the club, had demonstrated a willingness and ability to use youth players in his first year of management?

Throw in the added bonus (and a massive bonus it is) that his assistant coach is arguably the most successful youth coach in England of the past decade, who's worked closely with the youth players to be integrated this season. 

So if not Lampard this season, then who? 

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

 

Throw in the added bonus (and a massive bonus it is) that his assistant coach is arguably the most successful youth coach in England of the past decade, who's worked closely with the youth players to be integrated this season. 

So if not Lampard this season, then who? 

This is an incredibly important point, it wasn't just bringing back Frank Lampard that was the plan, it was also about bringing back Jody Morris who only recently had been involved in the coaching set up at the club which should have helped in the transition. This almost certainly would not have happened if we had brought in any other manager.

One thing that is not in question about SFL, he has the loyalty of the Young Chelsea Players. Checkout this quote from Christian Pulisic:

“It’s amazing. I mean, it’s everything I hoped it would be and more. It’s incredible,

“It worked out really well, for sure. Frank’s a great guy and he’s helped me so much and he understands where I’m coming from and he’s done a really good job and helped me, teaching us, especially a lot of the younger guys on the team.”

22 hours ago, robdog said:

One thing that is not in question about SFL, he has the loyalty of the Young Chelsea Players. Checkout this quote from Christian Pulisic:

“It’s amazing. I mean, it’s everything I hoped it would be and more. It’s incredible,

“It worked out really well, for sure. Frank’s a great guy and he’s helped me so much and he understands where I’m coming from and he’s done a really good job and helped me, teaching us, especially a lot of the younger guys on the team.”

Exactly.  If he's going to cut his teeth, ideal to do it here, with the young players and an assistant coach who knows them well.  When the expectations (loss of Hazard & transfer ban) are as low as they have ever been under Roman's ownership,.  One full year of experience together, learning and developing.  Yes, maybe one step back in order to go two steps forward.  

Lamps should have played Tomori in the holding role in the absence of Kante...hopefully Rudiger is back after the international break to partner Christensen at the back...

If I may compare the appointment of Frank to the England manager Mr Waistcoat GS. When Southgate took the job after the Big Sam debacle, it was in my mind a case of he's definitively not qualified to manage the senior team not thought out & knee jerk reaction appointment. He had failed at Boro, got relegated there and then had success at the Youth level of the national side. I mocked the appointment as did a lot of others - it was sure to falter. Wind on 3 years and the England team looks better than ever, a crop of Young players are breaking through and changing the whole dynamic and vibe of the set up, giving optimism for the future to all of us and more importantly we have entertaining matches to watch with Young players that are up for it (last WC being the pinnacle so far).  A few of those Young players to get call ups and even game time in the last 12 months - RLC, Tammy Abraham, CHO  & Mason Mount.  Have to admit egg on my face re Southgate.  

I know CFC is a completely different animal to England FC but there are some glaring similarities - an inexperienced coach appointed to senior level & young hungry players with potential. It hasn't come off at Chelsea yet, but given enough time & patience it just might do. None of us have a crystal ball so just sit back and enjoy the ride as for once in along time its gone off script. I do get that its no fun losing or drawing on a regular basis if you've been spoiled like us lot for the best part of 20 years (90s success to date). But be patient, imagine being a fan of the clubs that finish 8th-20th- a trophy once every 40 years and each season's target is to just avoid relegation, yet their fans don't moan they love their clubs, a few more Chelsea fans could do with that context right now.

15 minutes ago, General said:

But be patient, imagine being a fan of the clubs that finish 8th-20th- a trophy once every 40 years and each season's target is to just avoid relegation, yet their fans don't moan they love their clubs, a few more Chelsea fans could do with that context right now.

While i do agree with what you say in general i do disagree with this bit.

Firstly those clubs fans do moan and if hypothetically they broke into the elite, built a world class squad that underachieved and finished 5th they will moan and won't say "oh well it was a dream 5 years ago". 

It's all about context but for me a different one to what you meant. Give me 17th with the worst quality squad in the league and the players and coaching staff are immortal in my eyes, this squad finish there and they go in the hall of fame for all the wrong reasons. My first few years proper into football (92-95) i was happy with midtable finishes as realistically our squad wasn't capable of more, would i be happy with it this season? Absolutely not, quality wise we should be top 6 atleast.

Edited September 10, 20196 yr by Argo

I love the perspective some of you older fans have but at the same time the club is different, the world is different the expectations are different. This is a different club. Roman changed it, no ways around it. Our aim is to be Real Madrid and not Leicester. We can't drop a level either, the business is tied into growth.

This season things have taken another turn with the ban and with Marina and strickt budget. We are run like a proper business now which is great. The competition in England itself is massive.

Reality is winning the title is going to be extremely hard even if we brought in the joses, Conte's, ancelottis of this time period.

I like the current situation where we have new guys in, Frank at helm and a vision to win the title in a couple of years with mainly our own boys. Exciting times.

1 hour ago, evissy said:

I love the perspective some of you older fans have but at the same time the club is different, the world is different the expectations are different. This is a different club. Roman changed it, no ways around it. Our aim is to be Real Madrid and not Leicester. We can't drop a level either, the business is tied into growth.

This season things have taken another turn with the ban and with Marina and strickt budget. We are run like a proper business now which is great. The competition in England itself is massive.

Reality is winning the title is going to be extremely hard even if we brought in the joses, Conte's, ancelottis of this time period.

I like the current situation where we have new guys in, Frank at helm and a vision to win the title in a couple of years with mainly our own boys. Exciting times.

In many ways Pep coming in and doing what he's done has helped us as there's no option for a quick title these days which will mean we can fully commit to building this next generation.

2013 era especially after we got Mou back we were a couple of prime/quick fix signings away from becoming instant title favs which always led to temptation we were always going to succumb to.

This time it's different, a quick fix route will get us comfortable third at best so we may aswell do the building and hope we do enough to pounce when the City/Liverpool cycle slows down.

Really hope we can get a positive result at the weekend. Like frank said, the performances are mostly there but the results aren’t at the minute. Our next 3 games do look tough (Wolves, Valencia and Liverpool) and I would hate for more pressure to be put on Frank. 

2 hours ago, JM7 said:

Like frank said, the performances are mostly there but the results aren’t at the minute. 

 

We deserved to be stuffed by Utd because we were vulnerable every time they got the ball. We were always going to concede goals. We played right into their hands. Against Leicester and Sheffield Utd, both at home, we were very lucky to get a point, as they both totally outplayed us in the second-half. Frank may be putting a spin on it but the performances aren't mostly there at all. We can't defend a set-piece to save our lives, we are all over the place defensively and we concede way too much space. We are in for a long tough season in my opinion because the PL is full of very good managers, who have earned their jobs on merit, unlike ours. I have always been in favour of Frank being boss but let's not kid ourselves about the task in hand. I think people are going to be very surprised about where we finish up. This season represents an almighty steep learning curve for Frank, and he doesn't have the luxury of having a dressing room full of leaders and characters. Lose the next two games and pressure builds and he will be scrutinised like never before.

 

Edit: I hope he surprises me but I don't expect this season to be great.

Edited September 11, 20196 yr by Davey Baby

Frank is entirely governed by the players at his disposal, and don’t think our starting eleven ( even when everyone is fit), will scare the opposition overly.

Going over old ground here, however we’ve lost our get out of jail free card in Hazard. Any team that loses probably one of the five best attacking players in the world will notice their absence.

No one knows how whether the youngsters being blooded are potentially good enough to hold down a long term spot, however we have no choice but to field them and everyone is really hoping they succeed.

Be happy with 5th or 6th and a Cup Final.

Edit: Most would agree RLC and Mason Mount have the best chance of becoming established.

Edited September 12, 20196 yr by Ewell CFC

Well what a depressing read this thread has become. 😞

On 11/09/2019 at 23:17, Davey Baby said:

 

We deserved to be stuffed by Utd because we were vulnerable every time they got the ball. We were always going to concede goals. We played right into their hands. Against Leicester and Sheffield Utd, both at home, we were very lucky to get a point, as they both totally outplayed us in the second-half. Frank may be putting a spin on it but the performances aren't mostly there at all. We can't defend a set-piece to save our lives, we are all over the place defensively and we concede way too much space. We are in for a long tough season in my opinion because the PL is full of very good managers, who have earned their jobs on merit, unlike ours. I have always been in favour of Frank being boss but let's not kid ourselves about the task in hand. I think people are going to be very surprised about where we finish up. This season represents an almighty steep learning curve for Frank, and he doesn't have the luxury of having a dressing room full of leaders and characters. Lose the next two games and pressure builds and he will be scrutinised like never before.

 

Edit: I hope he surprises me but I don't expect this season to be great.

While I do agree Leicester outplayed us in the second half, the on another day thing is a two way thing.

We may have been lucky to survive with a point in the second half, but equally they were lucky to get to that point still in the game.

Common thing to all our games is we are blistering fast first 20-30min and after that it is up to the opponent. We need to score 2-3 goals in that period. Everybody knows it is not sustainable. Although I like Frank's approach it needs work. We will not win games like this.

We still have not been up to strength missing Rudiger, Kante and RLC. I expect us to improve as these players come back in.

With time the team will get used to the new tactics we are playing, and we do have lots of players who can cause trouble to the opposition.

Just because Hazard left hasn't meant the goals have dried up, it's just that stupid defensive errors have let teams back in.

2 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

We still have not been up to strength missing Rudiger, Kante and RLC. I expect us to improve as these players come back in.

Key players.

Ok I get what people are saying about expectations changing with the times. However, taking this season in isolation, we have a new, inexperienced manager, the transfer ban and an almost freakish injury list to contend with. Not to mention the reality of adjusting to life without Eden Hazard, then surely it's plain that expectations have to be lowered, if only for this season.

Top four is never guaranteed, this season top six would be a bonus. But then who knows? As Frank gains experience, and with a full complement of players to choose from, our form could well pick up dramatically.

In the meantime, my advice would be to keep those expectations realistic, expect a few glitches along the way, and above all continue to enjoy the roller coaster that has always gone hand in hand with being a Chelsea supporter.

I'm putting this in the Lampard thread because he deserves praise for giving the youth a chance. People can say his hand has been forced with the transfer ban, but I think the likes of Sarri, Conte and Mourinho wouldn't have put anywhere near as much faith in these youngsters like Lampard has. They would play experienced players out of position over giving so many young players so many minutes.

 

I think Lampard deserves a bit of praise for how he set the team up today too. It was the right call to play 3 cb's with Alonso coming in for Emerson. The back 3 could cover for Alonso's lack of pace in defence and it allowed Alonso to play a role in attack. If he had stuck with a 4 man defence today, it would have been hard to watch.

Good change today adjusted to the situation well if he continues to learn like this I will happily eat my humble pie, when I get home I will watch the whole match on NBCS.

This is why Lampard was the right choice, regardless of his inexperience. I'd still be amazed if we finish top six. I'd consider top half to represent good work on Lampard's behalf, not just because he's a rookie but because his players are too. There will be ups and downs with young players generally so I don't expect any level of consistency but for these young players to grow and develop they require a manager that's prepared to play them, and this is a great group of youngsters. James, Callum, Ruben, Tomori, Mount, Tammy, Christensen. Half our team could easily be academy graduates. If we hadn't had the ban we may not have hired Lampard and these players would never have had a chance. Mount, Tomori, Tammy, James, they'd al be out on loan right now, that's just a plain old fact. Sarri would have bought players, he would never have entertained the idea of playing these guys, and neither would Conte or Jose before him. Regardless of what happens this season, we're building for the future, we've forged an identity, there's a real feel-good factor and we have a group of players that really want to play for Chelsea. This is why we wanted Lampard. It wasn't too early. It was exactly the right time. These guys are now all signing long-term contracts because they can see a pathway to the first team. We would have stifled their development and eventually lost them. That's just another plain old fact.

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

I'm putting this in the Lampard thread because he deserves praise for giving the youth a chance. People can say his hand has been forced with the transfer ban, but I think the likes of Sarri, Conte and Mourinho wouldn't have put anywhere near as much faith in these youngsters like Lampard has. They would play experienced players out of position over giving so many young players so many minutes.

 

I think Lampard deserves a bit of praise for how he set the team up today too. It was the right call to play 3 cb's with Alonso coming in for Emerson. The back 3 could cover for Alonso's lack of pace in defence and it allowed Alonso to play a role in attack. If he had stuck with a 4 man defence today, it would have been hard to watch.

Yeah. It was a great call. Adama against Alonso at fullback would have been obscene. Even as it was he skinned him a couple of times I think.