51 minutes ago, Luiz4Chelsea said:

Yeah but what I like about a 4-3-3 is the dominance in the middle, dream example being Ballack-Essien-Lampard. Now Mount-Jorginho-Havertz (who's supposed to act as a false 9) simply lacks presence. Unless we discover the perfect midfielder I believe Mount will require two CMs to live up to his enormous potential. Now under those assumptions we don't actually use more of our attacking depth. I would picture...

Football has moved on from the Ballack, Essien and Lampard days. 

Just look at how Manchester City line up most weeks, their midfield often contains nearly all attack minded, possession based players. 

You don't need tough tackling midfielders when you press as a team properly out of possession. You force the errors and turn over possession without even putting a foot in... That's sort of the point Pep was making when he made his infamous "I don't practice tackling" comment a few years ago. 

There's no reason why Mount and Havertz can't play together in midfield. 

2 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Football has moved on from the Ballack, Essien and Lampard days. 

Just look at how Manchester City line up most weeks, their midfield often contains nearly all attack minded, possession based players. 

You don't need tough tackling midfielders when you press as a team properly out of possession. You force the errors and turn over possession without even putting a foot in... That's sort of the point Pep was making when he made his infamous "I don't practice tackling" comment a few years ago. 

There's no reason why Mount and Havertz can't play together in midfield. 

I agree, the profile has changed, you don't need big bulky players, but you still need intensity. When losing the ball (and you will) you need to close players down, bother them, rush them and don't let them bully you. And I believe Mount-Jorginho-Havertz would simply not stack up in those terms.

What you also need is positional discipline, so obviously Mount in a double pivot would spent most of his time in a different area of the pitch than Mount in front of a double pivot - which is where I believe he can better exploit his talent.

27 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Football has moved on from the Ballack, Essien and Lampard days. 

Just look at how Manchester City line up most weeks, their midfield often contains nearly all attack minded, possession based players. 

You don't need tough tackling midfielders when you press as a team properly out of possession. You force the errors and turn over possession without even putting a foot in... That's sort of the point Pep was making when he made his infamous "I don't practice tackling" comment a few years ago. 

There's no reason why Mount and Havertz can't play together in midfield. 

Tell that to the people who have a huge problem with Jorginho-Kovacic playing together. 

34 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Tell that to the people who have a huge problem with Jorginho-Kovacic playing together. 

I'm not sure I see the link between the two? 

One of the biggest criticisms of Jorginho and Kovacic as a pairing is the lack of their contribution in the final third, they're not very decisive beyond the halfway line and prefer to delegate the attacking duties to others rather than take responcibility themselves. 

Jorginho is good at interceptions but his lack of pace and poor mobility makes him almost useless at high pressing. 

56 minutes ago, Luiz4Chelsea said:

I agree, the profile has changed, you don't need big bulky players, but you still need intensity. When losing the ball (and you will) you need to close players down, bother them, rush them and don't let them bully you. And I believe Mount-Jorginho-Havertz would simply not stack up in those terms.

What you also need is positional discipline, so obviously Mount in a double pivot would spent most of his time in a different area of the pitch than Mount in front of a double pivot - which is where I believe he can better exploit his talent.

Mount is one of the best players we have in terms of intensity and pressing, in a midfield 3 he'd be pretty mobile with freedom to get up and down the pitch and you'd have Jorginho/Kante/Kovacic sitting behind him ready to drop in between the centre backs to form a 3 when the full-backs push forwards. 

Havertz would probably operate a similar role but more liscence to get forward so you ask the full-back on his side to show more restrait when pushing up. I don't think we've seen enough of Havertz to say definitively about his work rate. He has a more relaxed body language (much like Ballack had) where you can think he's not trying hard but he's still covering a lot of ground. 

31 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Mount is one of the best players we have in terms of intensity and pressing, in a midfield 3 he'd be pretty mobile with freedom to get up and down the pitch and you'd have Jorginho/Kante/Kovacic sitting behind him ready to drop in between the centre backs to form a 3 when the full-backs push forwards. 

Havertz would probably operate a similar role but more liscence to get forward so you ask the full-back on his side to show more restrait when pushing up. I don't think we've seen enough of Havertz to say definitively about his work rate. He has a more relaxed body language (much like Ballack had) where you can think he's not trying hard but he's still covering a lot of ground. 

I wouldn't mind trying that midfield and certainly wouldn't mind it working. I simply don't quite see why we'd be able to fit more of our attacking talent into a back-4 formation, particularly if CHO keeps showing exciting potential as RWB. If you're willing to play with only one conventional CM you get to use exactly the same players in a 3-5-2 as a 4-3-3, they're just different systems. Three at the back offering more outright protection of the box but also more dependance on the wing-back's work rate to contribute offensively and defensively.

Pulisic--------Werner----------CHO

Moutn------Jorginho-------Havertz

Chilwell--Rüdiger--Silva------James

 

--------------Pulisic--Werner-----------

Chilwell-Mount-Jorginho--Havertz--CHO

----Rüdiger------Silva---------Azpi-----

Into the 85th minute here and Ziyech has looked much better tonight. More lively and has hit a couple good passes so far.

Just so-so. Could have squared a nice pass to Pulisic on goal

Finally some of Ziyech's quality when he came on. Lively, asks the ball around, running the game with few passes. 

Was happy to see him playing like that, Tuchel should give him little more in the next games to prepare him for the second leg vs Atletico.

I expect we see him shine more in the CL.

Nah sorry, I thought he was poor tbh. Good ball to Werner but some f**king blunders after that, I expect better from him. Need that Ziyech back who demolished Burnley and created about 8 chances in the game. 

Thought he did okay, much better work rate and body language, shouldve got a return pass from azpi aswell which wouldve given him a chance in the box. Maybe the CHO sub has put a rocket up everyones arse, perform or get hooked. 

Not been impressed recently, but i read the other day he has only played about 1000 mins in a year! He was injured for 6 weeks prior to covid, dutch league was voided, and he got injured in his first preseason game us. Since then he has been chasing rhythm. Needs minutes, but he needs to do the basics if he wants to het on the pitch, so i think tonight was a decent outing for him, and hopefully a building block to get him back into some sort of form.

 

Attitude was better probably realise after Southampton Tuchel will not take your sh*t 

Some good through balls and passes forward, for me he's our best passer.

33 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Some good through balls and passes forward, for me he's our best passer.

I hope so, when he first came and after watching a lot of his videos his passing range and vision looked absolutely sublime, criminally underrated even. Lately it doesn't look like the real Ziyech to me. When he first came he looked the real deal, we need that man back. 

Because I honestly think that Ziyech is our best passer and creative player by far. 

Once everyone clicks, including Ziyech, we should have a pretty formidable team.

He's exactly what we've been missing recently, a player to beat a deep block. Someone who can play an accurate final pass and also isn't afraid to shoot outside the box and at least get it on target.

He just needs to get adjusted to the pace of the game, his touches have been heavy but he should be able to sort it out after all he's a wizard!

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

I hope so, when he first came and after watching a lot of his videos his passing range and vision looked absolutely sublime, criminally underrated even. Lately it doesn't look like the real Ziyech to me. When he first came he looked the real deal, we need that man back. 

Because I honestly think that Ziyech is our best passer and creative player by far. 

Those early games fans keep going on about were against Krasnodar, Sheff Utd & early season Burnley.

Not still convinced, and the jury is still out.

Just now, ducavis said:

Those early games fans keep going on about were against Krasnodar, Sheff Utd & early season Burnley.

Not still convinced, and the jury is still out.

That's fair enough. But keep in mind, no pre-season for him, he was out for 8 months before his debut from injury, then he was injured again when he went down against Leeds, just after setting James up for the assist. 

I think he does have some quality there, but I think fitness and attitude hold him back. 

3 hours ago, Slojo said:

That's fair enough. But keep in mind, no pre-season for him, he was out for 8 months before his debut from injury, then he was injured again when he went down against Leeds, just after setting James up for the assist. 

I think he does have some quality there, but I think fitness and attitude hold him back. 

And don’t forget, he was rushed back from that injury against Leeds. Should’ve sat out at least 2 more games than he did. Hasn’t looked the same since.

Should be getting some game time in this upcoming fixture list, think he would be best in the number 10 role with Werner and Giroud in front. Through balls for Timo and CHO to run onto. Whipped crosses for Giroud and Alonso.

Struggled mightily so far today. Really unfortunate the way it’s going for him. Thought he looked decent in his cameo the other day, but so timid today and keeps giving the ball away. This system just doesn’t fit him - get him in some space on the right and that’s where he delivers. Could honestly see him sold this summer the way it’s going - bet we could turn a decent profit considering the fee we got him for.

Edited February 28, 20215 yr by mwblue10

Body language and effort much better today but very much our weak link first half. Kept going and had a better second half and unlucky not to get a goal. 
still not sure if he suits Tuchel’s system though

He’s only had one good game.

Disappointing. Our signings have been incredibly sh*t. Only the defenders and Werner have looked good. Even then Werner has been disappointing too.

F*ck our luck, Man Utd sign Bruno and suddenly they become a top 4 team.

I don’t think anyone would be disappointed if we didn’t see him again in a blue shirt.

Shame I think we all had high hopes.