15 hours ago, ducavis said:

This is a sane line of thinking; why has he gone out and purchased a 27yr old & a 31yr old player then? If we are been real, we have no chance of winning the league in the next couple of seasons. Why is the manager running around saying we want to win, when there is so much to do to get our squad in order.

No one, as I'm sure Tuchel doesn't either, should believe that we have no chance to win the league. City are potentially poorer than last season - they need to replace 30 goals of Sterling and Jesus with 2 players who are as yet untested in the league and their system. Liverpool lost their best attacker, one of the best in Europe, and the replacement is untested. 

Assuming everyone stays fit, and we sign another CB - we have one of the best defence and midfield first choices in Europe. We now also have one of the top two left wingers in the league. Our issues are related to rotational options who want to leave and/or are not suitable for the system. But at the same time we now have Emerson who is an improvement on Alonso (for this system) and Gallagher back. 

We have a chance, but TT will need to work some magic though. 

19 hours ago, General said:

Think you lot are over analyzing , TT is a top manager is a he world class like Pep & Klopp ? (current EPL Manager benchmark of success level)- from what I've seen albeit under quite mental recent history circumstances (Covid then RA forced to sell along with the license restrictions) he's nowhere near their level. Is that because he isn't as 'talented' or because of those extraordinary circumstances ?

He needs time to build his own squad to be truly compared to those 2, and that's my point the previous regime's main transfer policy over the last 5 years has come home to roost. 

This link to Transfer Market shows all of CFC's historical dealings, scroll down to 2017 and then go up, here's the highlights with an outcome (in mills of US $)

https://www.transfermarkt.us/fc-chelsea/alletransfers/verein/631

Morata   $ 72.6  Failure   Baka $ 44  Failure  Drinky  $ 41.6 Failure  Zappa $ 27.5 Failure  Ross B $ 18.8 Failure  Giroud $ 18.7  Success TT benched him left won the title in Italia

Kepa $ 88m Failure  Pully $ 70.4 after 3 seasons not value for that price  Jorginho $ 62.7 not value for that price

Kova $ 49.5 Success

Havertz $ 88 after 2 seasons not value for that price  Werner $ 58.3 Failure  Chilly $ 55.2 Success until injury  Zyech $ 44 Failure  Mendy $26.4 Success

Lukaku $ 124.3  Failure

Failures total $ 519.1 mill

Not Value Total $ 150.7 mill

Successes  Total $ 149.8 mill

These figures do not of course include wages which a lot of the failures still here are on silly money to add insult to injury

In the world of recovery they say the amount of time it will take you when lost to find your way out of the woods is dependent upon the amount of time it took to get in that situation - so lets get real and don't expect Bully & Co to sort this out in 1 window and make this recently much criticized squad into world beaters - premier league or even top 4 contenders in a couple of weeks. 

Need quality value for money signings fast ! Easy to say but in reality challenging to do with little experience in the market.

 

 

 

 

Tuchel is trying to build a team basically as we speak, the fact is that we have been a top 4 team after Conte left so in some ways Tuchel did come in to manage a squad that despite not being able to compete for the league title, did manage to stay relevant, something that e.g. Man United and Arsenal haven't managed to do in the recent years consistently.

So if I read this whole thing right, it shows that almost a quarter of the total failure is on Lukaku?

In that case Tuchel has some high level of responsibility, despite you're counting since 2017, Tuchel had only 1 summer transfer window and he bought Lukaku that was the single most expensive failure of a transfer, some could argue of all possible transfers ever. 

Will Tuchel be able to get the best out of Sterling given how poorly our wingers have been performing in this system? Only Mount manages to get a decent number of goals and that's less because of the tactics and more because of his own talent, he's just a machine that can play a full season year after year and in some periods he just gets a goal or an assist here and there.

We need more players and it's up to Tuchel to build a squad for this season so when all said and done it's up to him now to do the job properly, we can't say that he hasn't been given the means, he literally could chose 90% of the player base last summer and he chose Lukaku. Now Sterling, Koulibaly so it looks promising but he must make it work or he'll be just continuing the generally "semi-bad" transfer record of the previous seasons.

Edited July 26, 20223 yr by Gol15

19 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

 

Tuchel is trying to build a team basically as we speak, the fact is that we have been a top 4 team after Conte left so in some ways Tuchel did come in to manage a squad that despite not being able to compete for the league title, did manage to stay relevant, something that e.g. Man United and Arsenal haven't managed to do in the recent years consistently.

So if I read this whole thing right, it shows that almost a quarter of the total failure is on Lukaku?

In that case Tuchel has some high level of responsibility, despite you're counting since 2017, Tuchel had only 1 summer transfer window and he bought Lukaku that was the single most expensive failure of a transfer, some could argue of all possible transfers ever. 

Will Tuchel be able to get the best out of Sterling given how poorly our wingers have been performing in this system? Only Mount manages to get a decent number of goals and that's less because of the tactics and more because of his own talent, he's just a machine that can play a full season year after year and in some periods he just gets a goal or an assist here and there.

We need more players and it's up to Tuchel to build a squad for this season so when all said and done it's up to him now to do the job properly, we can't say that he hasn't been given the means, he literally could chose 90% of the player base last summer and he chose Lukaku. Now Sterling, Koulibaly so it looks promising but he must make it work or he'll be just continuing the generally "semi-bad" transfer record of the previous seasons.

pretty sure, Lukaku wasn't a Tuchel transfer. if he really was his player, he would have let him play  as many minutes as possible, instead he dropped him quite fast out of the first eleven and reading in-between the lines and his comments on Lukaku, it seems like he wasn't his biggest fan from the beginning. Also he mentioned in one of his last interviews that now he is way more involved in transfers than last season. Maybe he said yes to Lukaku because there was not other top striker available but that's it. 

To be honest, there is too much discussion about Tuchel right now. He's at Chelsea for 1 1/2 years now and done fantastic. Yes, there were some games that were dull but the finals last season and against Madrid wasn't attacking football or what? Very unlucky that there was not at least another title.. The offensive is just not able to score enough out of the chances they get and that's down to the players. 

Give him the players he want, I'm sure he will a lot more titles with Chelsea. Pep and Klopp had a lot more time to built there squad and its essential to have players that fit your system and your way of playing. 

58 minutes ago, jony92 said:

pretty sure, Lukaku wasn't a Tuchel transfer. if he really was his player, he would have let him play  as many minutes as possible, instead he dropped him quite fast out of the first eleven and reading in-between the lines and his comments on Lukaku, it seems like he wasn't his biggest fan from the beginning. Also he mentioned in one of his last interviews that now he is way more involved in transfers than last season. Maybe he said yes to Lukaku because there was not other top striker available but that's it. 

To be honest, there is too much discussion about Tuchel right now. He's at Chelsea for 1 1/2 years now and done fantastic. Yes, there were some games that were dull but the finals last season and against Madrid wasn't attacking football or what? Very unlucky that there was not at least another title.. The offensive is just not able to score enough out of the chances they get and that's down to the players. 

Give him the players he want, I'm sure he will a lot more titles with Chelsea. Pep and Klopp had a lot more time to built there squad and its essential to have players that fit your system and your way of playing. 

Well to be fair he wanted Haaland and we were ready to pay 100m. He ended up in Man City for half of that money and Tuchel was openly saying how Lukaku would give us a great tactical option in attack, he wasn't against the Lukaku signing, far from it. Tuchel might not have the time like Klopp had, nor the money like Pep has but he has something in-between, if he manages to make a great squad that alone would make him better than the rest.

 

 

11 minutes ago, azpi28 said:

 

 

Maybe one day we will be a side no one wants to play against.

For now though we are much closer to a side no one enjoys watching.

11 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Maybe one day we will be a side no one wants to play against.

For now though we are much closer to a side no one enjoys watching.

 

So a year after letting Tomori, livraminto,  Guehi go we will be signing bang average players like Dumphries ?

like always we got played again by AC and Rudiger.. TT showed faith in them and Azpi even as they entered their final years by shipping out PL quality youngsters .. look where it landed us.

to be honest I am worried by our ability to spot talent and the short term View we are taking in general.. 

we are not Mancity so to enter a season without a striker and on some dream of how a fluid front 3 will give us goals is making me quite disillusioned with the current dispensation.

On 25/07/2022 at 19:15, dkw said:

Yeah, cant argue with that, rather than buy players because we need players I would much rather we hold off until the next window or even the one after that and get the players we actually want. this whole window is a mess for a lot of reasons, so just hold back, use the players we have who want to be here, sell/bin the rest and have some patience...which I know is a swear word in football.

Tbf we have actually stopped signing the like of zappacosta or drinkwater. Most player that we tried to sign are meant to be starter and our first choice

If we go back to lamp 2nd season

Werner - starter 

Kai - Starter

Ziyech - starter 

Silva - Starter 

Mendy - Starter 

Silva - Starter 

Lukaku - Starter 

Sterling - Starter 

Koula - Starter 

Loan signing like for Saul or free cheap signing for the like of Sarr is irrelevant. 

It is just some of them are not good enough which worrying and I feel like there is little plan how to use them which compound the problem. 

 

 

This is beginning to feel like panic buying, anyone to fill a spot as long as they cost money .Surely we have players of the same potential quality that

perhaps need some encouragement and training from the coaching staff. Accept that we will have a learning curve season where things will be trying

but don't keep throwing cash at less than top rate players.✌️

3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Tbf we have actually stopped signing the like of zappacosta or drinkwater. Most player that we tried to sign are meant to be starter and our first choice

If we go back to lamp 2nd season

Werner - starter 

Kai - Starter

Ziyech - starter 

Silva - Starter 

Mendy - Starter 

Silva - Starter 

Lukaku - Starter 

Sterling - Starter 

Koula - Starter 

Loan signing like for Saul or free cheap signing for the like of Sarr is irrelevant. 

It is just some of them are not good enough which worrying and I feel like there is little plan how to use them which compound the problem. 

 

 

I was more referring to the current desperate hunt for defenders, were seemingly bouncing from one player to the next, just trying to sign someone when there really is no need. We have 3 quality CB`s, with 2 or 3 squad CB`s ready also. Where were desperately lacking is midfield creativity, yet we dont seem to be after anyone so we will rely on Jorginho once again, which will fail, once again.

1 hour ago, hawkster said:

perhaps need some encouragement and training from the coaching staff. Accept that we will have a learning curve season where things will be trying

but don't keep throwing cash at less than top rate players.✌️

Easier sad than done with our spoilt fanbase.

Right now it's looks likely that a lot of the youngsters will be heavily involved this season. Probably all three of Colwill, Gallagher and Broja as well as Chalobah and the others that are already integrated. It's what a lot of people have wanted so let's hope the same people are perfectly happy to accept performances that will vary a lot this season and perhaps a finish outside of the Top 4.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Easier sad than done with our spoilt fanbase.

Right now it's looks likely that a lot of the youngsters will be heavily involved this season. Probably all three of Colwill, Gallagher and Broja as well as Chalobah and the others that are already integrated. It's what a lot of people have wanted so let's hope the same people are perfectly happy to accept performances that will vary a lot this season and perhaps a finish outside of the Top 4.

 

 

We add a quality forward and I'm very positive we secure top 4 as "easily" as last season. Defensively we are rather solid by default - if Thiago and/or Koulibaly miss half a season it's another story, but let's not paint it all black. Sterling will be a huge upgrade almost guaranteed and Gallagher + Broja would add some depth to the squad while also offering aspects we missed before. We would need to reduce our squad though, no way TT can keep the locker room happy with those amounts of players for 3-4 spots (Pulisic, Werner, Havertz, Sterling, CHO, Hakim, Broja, Gallagher (eventually), Mount) - even considering the 5 subs rule which I assume helps us quite a good deal.

Edited July 27, 20223 yr by weetee

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

Easier sad than done with our spoilt fanbase.

Right now it's looks likely that a lot of the youngsters will be heavily involved this season. Probably all three of Colwill, Gallagher and Broja as well as Chalobah and the others that are already integrated. It's what a lot of people have wanted so let's hope the same people are perfectly happy to accept performances that will vary a lot this season and perhaps a finish outside of the Top 4.

 

 

I really doubt all 4 will start together in the league. Also most fans were against signing 3 CBs not 2 - but all fans agree that they rather see Chalobah/Colwill than an expensive average continental export that the club seem to be running after... As for the top 4 outside of city/pool we have probably the most expensive front line - Pulisic, Havertz, sterling that is $200 mil of talent so lets not pretend we are stoke city. I think it is only fair for fans to expect improvement and results from the coaching staff.. and certainly outscore and out perform Arsenal/City/Spurs.

3 minutes ago, Jangz said:

I really doubt all 4 will start together in the league. Also most fans were against signing 3 CBs not 2 - but all fans agree that they rather see Chalobah/Colwill than an expensive average continental export that the club seem to be running after... As for the top 4 outside of city/pool we have probably the most expensive front line - Pulisic, Havertz, sterling that is $200 mil of talent so lets not pretend we are stoke city. I think it is only fair for fans to expect improvement and results from the coaching staff.. and certainly outscore and out perform Arsenal/City/Spurs.

We have only been after top defenders. Defenders that would also suit a back four so the manager had that option going into the season. Right now that's quite simply not an option even if he wanted to do it simply because we only have Koulibaly that would be suitable for a back four.

And if you think Koulibaly, Silva (at 38), Chalobah, Sarr and Colwill is good enough in terms of CBs going into the season I think you are very, very wrong. That's two CBs there that is actually good enough and two that have proved they are not good enough and one talented youngster.

As for the frontline I think we've concluded they aren't very talented at all. They aren't good just because our last director wasted a whole lot of money on them. Sterling is good enough but that's about it. If you expect Tuchel to create a team that outscores Tottenham with proven top class attackers in Kane and Son and Kulusevski and Richarlison who's both better than everyone we have bar Sterling you got to be kidding me. And same goes for City with all their attacking talent + Haaland etc etc.

 

17 minutes ago, Jangz said:

Pulisic, Havertz, sterling that is $200 mil of talent so lets not pretend we are stoke city. 

It isn't.  We spent big money on Pulisic but there's very little talent there.  Suggesting he's £58m worth of talent on the pitch when he was signed solely for off the field reasons doesn't make sense.

Then we have Havertz who is talented but was signed based on future potential he isn't currently pooking close to fulfilling.

Sterling is by far our best attacking player and City let him go.

Expecting us to outscore City with our current options is absolutely crazy but more concerningly we're almost certainly not going to outscore Spurs with our current group.

Kane, Son, Richarlison and Kuleveski would all be guaranteed starters in our team.

Edited July 27, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

2 hours ago, Sindre said:

We have only been after top defenders. Defenders that would also suit a back four so the manager had that option going into the season. Right now that's quite simply not an option even if he wanted to do it simply because we only have Koulibaly that would be suitable for a back four.

And if you think Koulibaly, Silva (at 38), Chalobah, Sarr and Colwill is good enough in terms of CBs going into the season I think you are very, very wrong. That's two CBs there that is actually good enough and two that have proved they are not good enough and one talented youngster.

As for the frontline I think we've concluded they aren't very talented at all. They aren't good just because our last director wasted a whole lot of money on them. Sterling is good enough but that's about it. If you expect Tuchel to create a team that outscores Tottenham with proven top class attackers in Kane and Son and Kulusevski and Richarlison who's both better than everyone we have bar Sterling you got to be kidding me. And same goes for City with all their attacking talent + Haaland etc etc.

 

1. My example spoke about Dumfries and the PSG guy and a host of similar targets also that have been linked post the kounde debacle.. I don’t think we need to invest in players of that ilk- gives Matt miazga and Djibouti vibes

2.I would rather see chalobah and Thiago and KK instead of some of the options being linked with. Also part of this is our creation why didn’t we sort out AC and Rudi futures before releasing Tomori and Guehi

3. On the attacking front we have bought Europe’s cream I think the tactical setup has failed to utilise their strengths … with a much inferior line up under lamps we out gunned arsenal spurs etc. 

ps city was a typo I meant Utd.

2 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

It isn't.  We spent big money on Pulisic but there's very little talent there.  Suggesting he's £58m worth of talent on the pitch when he was signed solely for off the field reasons doesn't make sense.

Then we have Havertz who is talented but was signed based on future potential he isn't currently pooking close to fulfilling.

Sterling is by far our best attacking player and City let him go.

Expecting us to outscore City with our current options is absolutely crazy but more concerningly we're almost certainly not going to outscore Spurs with our current group.

Kane, Son, Richarlison and Kuleveski would all be guaranteed starters in our team.

City was a typo .. richarlison has never been that prolific and neither has been kuleveski.. we have beaten Kane and son partnership with an inferior squad.. the only thing that has changed is their manager. So unless you saying TT is not doing what conte is .. I can’t see another way to look at it.

7 hours ago, dkw said:

I was more referring to the current desperate hunt for defenders, were seemingly bouncing from one player to the next, just trying to sign someone when there really is no need. We have 3 quality CB`s, with 2 or 3 squad CB`s ready also. Where were desperately lacking is midfield creativity, yet we dont seem to be after anyone so we will rely on Jorginho once again, which will fail, once again.

I think Tuchel is looking for a left footed cb

I'm growing concerned about TT.  It's quite a leap for a coach when they start making comments like (and I'm paraphrasing) "with the same group of players, why would you expect different outcome".  There is a negative energy in the team that shouldn't be there following the takeover - the cloud has been lifted.

TT needs some downtime, but after that preseason tour, and with the season starting in just over a week, the rags are showing pics of him on holiday.  Hopefully the break chills him out a little and gets him focused.

The mood in the camp before the Kounde saga was apparently really positive. Squad were upbeat 

I am worried Tuchels involvement in the transfer business, as reported, is not helping him to get the best out of the group he has. Ideally he gives 15 names (or so) we could go after and hope for the top targets to land otherwise he should drill the group and try to make the best of the players he has. Those statements he made after Arsenal game are not very good to hear. 

I would love him to try and instill Colwill and Ampadu in the group as well as possible.

hope the new "friend" helps calm him down 🙂

1 minute ago, Jangz said:

hope the new "friend" helps calm him down 🙂

She looks like she'll do that quite nicely !

I'm sure he's still working while on vacation though ... 🙂 

I shouldn't be doing this  but: 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/19340338/thomas-tuchel-new-brazilian-girlfriend-divorce/