The pace and physicality of the league is definitely a thing. He is most likely a bit physically anf mentally fatigued. At City he would have had a back up in Fernandinho who knows the system to replace him. Here he's had Fabregas who didn't have the legs. I don't think it's any coincidence that the two new boys in Kovacic and Jorginho have struggled in past weeks. 

1 hour ago, Remodez said:

Surprised to see people turning on him and calling him a dud already.

He's a very good player. Not only is he new to the league, he's joined a new team and is expected to pretty much carry us as the team is built around him. Be patient. 

I don't think many people on here are doubting his qualities. Whilst he lacks pace, he is extremely comfortable on the ball and is actually a very good tackler, after halting runs from the opposition if the ball is in and around him.

I think the questioning is around the last part of your final sentence. For a new guy coming into the team and a new league, by all means build a style of play and formation around him, but surely have some form of adequate back up for periods of injury, fatigue, general loss of form, or specific tactics for combatting a particular opposition. To have no back up, as well as allowing the nearest back up to the position to leave and to have not developed anybody within the club to adequately cover the role, seems a bit negligent. If there is no alternative then when he does have a downturn of form which may be fatigue based, it's going to look pretty obvious to everyone, especially when Sarri has gone out on a limb stating that Kante cannot do this. Its a ballsy move with no cover.

 

It shouldn't be as easy as just stopping jorginho to stop us playing, that certainly wasn't the case at napoli. We don't pose enough of a threat to teams, there is no striker that can occupy defenders, there are no runners from midfield, the full back offer very little quality in the final 3rd, and the wingers are extremely inconsistent, bar hazard. 

If we fix some of the other issues then teams will not be able to just press jorginho with 2 or 3 players, because we will be able to exploit the gaps they leave. 

Jorginho for his part needs to step it up, he needs to keep the ball better, and stop forcing things in the final 3rd. The lack of movement from the team, is also massive hindrance on why we can't break teams down, and why we end up going backwards so often.

Sarri needs to find a way to overcome what teams are doing to stop us. 

10 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I don't think many people on here are doubting his qualities. Whilst he lacks pace, he is extremely comfortable on the ball and is actually a very good tackler, after halting runs from the opposition if the ball is in and around him.

I think the questioning is around the last part of your final sentence. For a new guy coming into the team and a new league, by all means build a style of play and formation around him, but surely have some form of adequate back up for periods of injury, fatigue, general loss of form, or specific tactics for combatting a particular opposition. To have no back up, as well as allowing the nearest back up to the position to leave and to have not developed anybody within the club to adequately cover the role, seems a bit negligent. If there is no alternative then when he does have a downturn of form which may be fatigue based, it's going to look pretty obvious to everyone, especially when Sarri has gone out on a limb stating that Kante cannot do this. Its a ballsy move with no cover.

 

It probably shows a disconnect between the manager and the board.

I may be in a small number here, but I actually think the recent Jorginho criticism is over the top. He showed his class in the first few months of this season and when you factor in a new team, a new league etc, plus the number of consecutive games he's played, is it any surprise he's fallen away. The more urgent issue is the complete lack of like-for-like player, especially since Cesc left and given Kante isn't the type of player that Sarri wants in that role.

The crazy thing is, I can't remember another situation where a new manager comes in, and then immediately, there isn't a place in the side for one of their best players due to the preferred system. Kante shouldn't really be in the team as a number 8, but Sarri doesn't want him as the number 6 either, so he's shoe-horning him in. Arguably we'd be a better team with two natural number 8's in those positions but that means leaving Kante out. Which is mental.

Edited January 21, 20197 yr by Elliott

Jose's thoughts: 

 

Ha ha ha.  Now we are making a point using some washed-up, unemployed ex-manager pontificating on Al-Jazheera.

 

(He might have a point, though.)

Horribly out of form but knows he won’t be dropped

2000 odd passes and not one asists is plainly not good enough is it ?

needs someone alongside him to help him out

hopefully having a striker moves Eden back to his position and we can all start to look more comfortable 

i do agree though David Luiz in a 3 is the way forward for me

25 minutes ago, Andy2461 said:

Horribly out of form but knows he won’t be dropped

2000 odd passes and not one asists is plainly not good enough is it ?

needs someone alongside him to help him out

hopefully having a striker moves Eden back to his position and we can all start to look more comfortable 

i do agree though David Luiz in a 3 is the way forward for me

I really can't stand this argument.  Yes, he is out of form.  No, he would not be a high assist player even if he was in form.  The amount of passes a player makes has no direct effect on the amount of assists he will have.  Sergio Busquets has completed 2439 passes across all competitions and only has registered 2 assists.  Is that plainly not good enough?  No, it's the role they play.

Take a look at all of the great balls that he has played this season, most of them have been bottled by the player receiving the pass.

On 19/01/2019 at 18:06, just said:

No. He's another expensive dud. It's plain as day.

Not disputing what you say about teams figuring him out, but the glaring fact is he can do nothing about it when they close him down quickly. He has no pace, he has no power, he cannot dribble, he has no vision. If Robbie Savage were still playing he would eat Jorginho for breakfast.

To pile on the misery there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of him being dropped. Some players just do not suit the EPL. Jorginho is one of them.

 

I might be too optimistic but I like to give players a benefit of the doubt especially since he's only half a season into a new league. He might be ill-suited to the league, but I honestly feel that it's too early to tell. It takes a lot of players about a season to completely adapt to the intensity of the league. One thing I do agree that he needs to be dropped or at least rotated as I think fatigue might be one of the things hindering his performance.

On 21/01/2019 at 12:01, Remodez said:

Surprised to see people turning on him and calling him a dud already.

He's a very good player. Not only is he new to the league, he's joined a new team and is expected to pretty much carry us as the team is built around him. Be patient. 

I think it's the media effect because the media are now starting to pick on him. 

He hasn't played well lately but I know what I saw at the start of the season, there's definitely a good player there, I'm not writing him off just yet. 

On 21/01/2019 at 14:18, yorkleyblue said:

Ha ha ha.  Now we are making a point using some washed-up, unemployed ex-manager pontificating on Al-Jazheera.

 

(He might have a point, though.)

1

Don't ever change!

He hasn’t recovered from the spurs game. Might be his confidence. The games leading up to spurs, he looked quite promising and was dictating the midfield. Think some time needs to be given here. Also we don’t have a clinical sticker up front. Maybe with Gonzalo, we could see some more direct passes to cut the defense.

Has anyone else seen this stat that Jorginho has won possession in the midfield third more than any other player in Europe's top 5 leagues this season?  I thought that was surprising, and of course he obviously still has defensive limitations, but all things considering it is impressive.

David Luiz putting fools on blast - love it!!

 

Ruben enjoyed Jorginho's pen.

 

Has anyone else seen this stat that Jorginho has won possession in the midfield third more than any other player in Europe's top 5 leagues this season?  I thought that was surprising, and of course he obviously still has defensive limitations, but all things considering it is impressive.

I have said it many times some fans just don't understand what he's there to do

Thought first half last night he was really good and that's what I would like to see more of from him. Composed, pushed further forward and some great passes.

Second half not sure if he tired or Sp*rs targeted him a bit more but he wasn't as good. But WHAT a cool penalty!

 

@ChelseaYannick: Jorginho,

Most passes in the Premier League.
 
Most forward passes in Europe's top 5 leagues.

Played most through-balls in the Premier League.

Won possession in the midfield third more than any other player in Europe's top 5 leagues. 

Generic pundit "he's got no assists". https://twitter.com/ChelseaYannick/status/1088703515747409920/photo/1

 

So, about these "only sideways" passes he makes... 

Does Yannick provide the source of the stats

20 minutes ago, dkw said:

@ChelseaYannick: Jorginho,

Most passes in the Premier League.
 
Most forward passes in Europe's top 5 leagues.

Played most through-balls in the Premier League.

Won possession in the midfield third more than any other player in Europe's top 5 leagues. 

Generic pundit "he's got no assists". https://twitter.com/ChelseaYannick/status/1088703515747409920/photo/1

 

So, about these "only sideways" passes he makes... 

Thought he only made 5 yard backwards passes to the CB's though?

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

Thought first half last night he was really good and that's what I would like to see more of from him. Composed, pushed further forward and some great passes.

Second half not sure if he tired or Sp*rs targeted him a bit more but he wasn't as good. But WHAT a cool penalty!

 

How I saw it too. Thought both him and Barkley were very good for 60 minutes or so but both faded. Not surprising really they both put a helluva lot of work in.

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

Thought first half last night he was really good and that's what I would like to see more of from him. Composed, pushed further forward and some great passes.

Second half not sure if he tired or Sp*rs targeted him a bit more but he wasn't as good. But WHAT a cool penalty!

 

Second half the Spuds changed their format and had five across the midfield  - making it a bit more crowded and pressured.  But I agree with you and @just, he dropped in performance a bit later in the match

Very good game from him last night. He seemed to move a little more to get on the ball. 

I did get frustrated in the second half when it seemed Spurs were finding easy balls into the forward line in the channels. He really should be cutting those out.