1 hour ago, Slojo said:

He still played further back under Conte than he does under Sarri, I think that's the point he's making. He was much more of a ball winner then, to call him box to box player then would be inaccurate imo. 

Understand your point, but to be fair the whole side played deeper under Conte. The reason he doesn't win the ball back as much now, is because we have more possession under Sarri

from my understanding of Sarriball, Jorginho's role is more of a Regista - if you don't know what a Regista, here is a lil' video

 

12 minutes ago, robdog said:

from my understanding of Sarriball, Jorginho's role is more of a Regista - if you don't know what a Regista, here is a lil' video

 

I interesting but no way is Jorginho a similar player to Charlie Roberts fondly known as Charles Charlie Charles.

here's a lil video to help people understand.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=harry+enfield+arsenal+v+liverpool&&view=detail&mid=4FEB4F63ACD80D0CA6084FEB4F63ACD80D0CA608&&FORM=VRDGAR

1 hour ago, Argo said:

And you certainly won't get that version back if you play him as sitting DM.

 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Yes, in a position that doesn't exist in Sarri's system, it makes me laugh when people say "swap him for Jorginho so he goes back to his best position" that position limits him infinity times more than the current one does.

If you want Kante at his absolute best then we revert to 4-4-2 or 3-4-3 and play strictly on the counter. 

In any case this is not the monster we all knew and loved.......its totally different. Every manager has used him at his optimum, we are asking him to play way up ahead and score goals......imagine playing the likes of fernandinho Maka etc up there.....search and destroy and shield that defence, thats Kante.....he will never be a Lamps Gerrard etc.

13 minutes ago, atomis said:

 

In any case this is not the monster we all knew and loved.......its totally different. Every manager has used him at his optimum, we are asking him to play way up ahead and score goals......imagine playing the likes of fernandinho Maka etc up there.....search and destroy and shield that defence, thats Kante.....he will never be a Lamps Gerrard etc.

Fernandinho and Maka are different players to Kante.

Kante likes to be implusive and proactive winning the ball and starting counters safe in the knowledge he has a sitter behind him for when he fails in his search, playing him in the role Fernandinho played or Maka did is counterproductive as he will either sit neglecting his best attribute or go proactively hunting the ball leaving gaping gaps in behind whenever teams beat his pressing. The only time Kante played the role you're calling him to play was Conte's first 6 games and it went so well Conte had to overhaul the entire system.

Kante's best position doesn't exist under Sarri so it's about finding the best way to utilize him and i would fancy him to get to grips with RCM more than i do CDM/DLP.

Edited January 10, 20197 yr by Argo

2 hours ago, Argo said:

Fernandinho and Maka are different players to Kante.

Kante likes to be implusive and proactive winning the ball and starting counters safe in the knowledge he has a sitter behind him for when he fails in his search, playing him in the role Fernandinho played or Maka did is counterproductive as he will either sit neglecting his best attribute or go proactively hunting the ball leaving gaping gaps in behind whenever teams beat his pressing. The only time Kante played the role you're calling him to play was Conte's first 6 games and it went so well Conte had to overhaul the entire system.

Kante's best position doesn't exist under Sarri so it's about finding the best way to utilize him and i would fancy him to get to grips with RCM more than i do CDM/DLP.

Ohh I can def agree his best position seemingly do not exist in this system.......he is still good just not the monster we came to know and love past 2 seasons.

Jorginho has now completed over 2000 passes in the Premier League without registering a single assist.

28 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Jorginho has now completed over 2000 passes in the Premier League without registering a single assist.

Just watching MOTD our back four and Jorginho are in the top 10 for most passes this season. It just shows how much time we spend fannying about passing ball around at the back. I’m surprised Kepa isn’t on it too!

Shame for the whistles to Jorginho and Alonso. For my conception of supporting is inconceivable.  They can play bad, we agree, but always must be supported during the match.

Said this thing, i think that the team plays with fear in Stamford Bridge after the last bad results. They have to overcome this moment. 

I don’t care about Sarri ball I just want to see Kante have a couple of games sitting at the base of midfield, i’d take his lack of “technical” ability playing there in favour of his solidity. 

Jorginho looks completely out of sorts at the moment and is closer to being a hindrance than help to the team right now.

1 minute ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I don’t care about Sarri ball I just want to see Kante have a couple of games sitting at the base of midfield, i’d take his lack of “technical” ability playing there in favour of his solidity. 

Jorginho looks completely out of sorts at the moment and is closer to being a hindrance than help to the team right now.

He was very bad today, so many loose passes.

1 minute ago, mwblue10 said:

He was very bad today, so many loose passes.

And that’s the thing, of all the players he’s the one in this system that can’t afford to be loose in possession. When he’s giving the ball away that frequently and that cheaply he’s entire purpose is lost.

2 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

I don’t care about Sarri ball I just want to see Kante have a couple of games sitting at the base of midfield, i’d take his lack of “technical” ability playing there in favour of his solidity. 

Jorginho looks completely out of sorts at the moment and is closer to being a hindrance than help to the team right now.

I've bitten my to tongue for some time but I'm just going to go ahead and ask exactly what technical ability does he have that ou other players don't? 

If Sarri like Jorginho this much he would have sbolutely f**king loved Mikel.

Either play him in a 4231 or drop him he's been absolute dross recently. Mikel used to get slagged off week in week out but put in better performances and didn't give the ball away half as much.

i was at the game today and this guy is a wages thief

he gives nothing o the team whatsoever just passes it sideways 

over 2000 passes without one assist for the love of god hes got to go

we play kante out of position for this dross. just take a moment to think about that

I don't believe he is a bad player based off his performances before coming to Chelsea. I think at the moment he is struggling to lose the opponents that are marking him (Which has basically become everyone we face). Everytime he gets the ball there is someone there which I believe has played a huge role in him misplacing passes and getting pushed off the ball easily. I wonder if that has to do with him not fully adapted to the league strength and pace, or whether another creative player upfield might help take the heat off him.

32 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I don't believe he is a bad player based off his performances before coming to Chelsea. I think at the moment he is struggling to lose the opponents that are marking him (Which has basically become everyone we face). Everytime he gets the ball there is someone there which I believe has played a huge role in him misplacing passes and getting pushed off the ball easily. I wonder if that has to do with him not fully adapted to the league strength and pace, or whether another creative player upfield might help take the heat off him.

doesn't the fact that opponents feel the need to mark him, say what other teams are trying to do.  and if they feel he is quality?

1 hour ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I don't believe he is a bad player based off his performances before coming to Chelsea. I think at the moment he is struggling to lose the opponents that are marking him (Which has basically become everyone we face). Everytime he gets the ball there is someone there which I believe has played a huge role in him misplacing passes and getting pushed off the ball easily. I wonder if that has to do with him not fully adapted to the league strength and pace, or whether another creative player upfield might help take the heat off him.

No. He's another expensive dud. It's plain as day.

Not disputing what you say about teams figuring him out, but the glaring fact is he can do nothing about it when they close him down quickly. He has no pace, he has no power, he cannot dribble, he has no vision. If Robbie Savage were still playing he would eat Jorginho for breakfast.

To pile on the misery there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of him being dropped. Some players just do not suit the EPL. Jorginho is one of them.

 

Edited January 19, 20197 yr by just

Mikel is supposedly available ... strikes me as the sort of player who'd be a natural for Sarriball ... nice bit of physical presence to add to our team of midgets as well, not to mention someone who knows what winning and Chelsea is all about.

 

Time for Kante to play where he belongs. Id even be tempted to play kovacic and Hudson odoi either side of him. Hazard and Pedro on the wings with Emerson and Azpi overlapping. And actually playing Giroud or Morata. I think we score a lot more goals, and be so much more direct, whilst also being more solid.

4 hours ago, just said:

No. He's another expensive dud. It's plain as day.

Not disputing what you say about teams figuring him out, but the glaring fact is he can do nothing about it when they close him down quickly. He has no pace, he has no power, he cannot dribble, he has no vision. If Robbie Savage were still playing he would eat Jorginho for breakfast.

To pile on the misery there is absolutely no chance whatsoever of him being dropped. Some players just do not suit the EPL. Jorginho is one of them.

 

The sad thing is I think I this is true, especially in the premier league.

Time to go back to a back 3...

Has to be dropped now, he has been terrible since the prem caught on to him. Sarri blames players motivation but picks same team every week

City must be laughing now on dodging the bullet on Jorginho. Much been said in match thread, he just doensn't offer anything to make himself as an outstanding and even good midfielder. If we make a highlight reel of his season now, it will be 5 minutes of repeated sideways passing and that penalty.

24 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

City must be laughing now on dodging the bullet on Jorginho. Much been said in match thread, he just doensn't offer anything to make himself as an outstanding and even good midfielder. If we make a highlight reel of his season now, it will be 5 minutes of repeated sideways passing and that penalty.

I don't think it's as easy as that though. I have my doubts about Jorginho but he may have been a good fit for this current City side. Pep basically bought a whole new team filled with quality players that fit his style of football, Sarri has to make do with whatever he inherited from the previous regime. At City they've got plenty of goalscoring and creative outlets, Jorginho would just keep doing the ball retention and no one would care that he contributes f**k all to the attack.