I dont blame Lampard's philosophy for our defensive frailties. I think the truth of the matter is that our defenders just aren't good enough. Among our senior centre-backs for example, Rudiger and azpi on his good days are the only ones that might have a chance to start for any of our rivals and that's even still uncertain. Obviously Reece and Tomori aren't lumped in this category since they are still young and developing but the rest of our defenders just aren't good enough imo. And then there is our world's most expensive keeper who has question marks written all over him.

Edited February 19, 20206 yr by Frankie8Lampard

13 hours ago, chiefBlueCFC said:

I don't see how Lampard can pick Batshuayi over Giroud going forward. Giroud should be behind Tammy since we were unable to get a striker during the January window. I've always liked Bats, but he just doesn't offer enough to be a 2nd striker at a club like Chelsea IMO. In that sense, I think Lampard is at fault for not picking the correct squad. I know that injuries do not help and we have a lot of injuries currently. Need to fight through this period and not drop too many points so that when Callum, Pulisic, RLC etc get healthy we can continue to progress and qualify for CL

I don’t rate Bats either. Educated guess that he might be one of these players whose on fire during training which gives the management hope, but lacks matchday temperement.

Edited February 19, 20206 yr by Ewell CFC

13 hours ago, chiefBlueCFC said:

......................................... I think Lampard is at fault for not picking the correct squad. ........................................

Who else do you think he should be picking for the squad, then?  I can see Batshuayi is a mistake, but who else?  Serious question.

27 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I dont blame Lampard's philosophy for our defensive frailties. I think the truth of the matter is that our defenders just aren't good enough. Among our senior centre-backs for example, Rudiger and azpi on his good days are the only ones that might have a chance to start for any of our rivals and that's even still uncertain. Obviously Reece and Tomori aren't lumped in this category since they are still young and developing but the rest of our defenders just aren't good enough imo. And then there is our world's most expensive keeper who has question marks written all over him.

Individually our center backs are fine (Not a fan of Zouma personally but he's not been as terrible as I expected he would be), it's just the only combination that actually compliment each other well for the system Frank wants is Rudiger and Tomori. The others are just awkward when paired together. Our right backs are very good no complaints there but the left backs are just dreadful.

Can't be too harsh on Lampard, especially he wasn't backed at at during the last transfer window, and the team played on Monday was the worst team we put on the field for about a year. Apart from picking Christensen, Pedro and Caballero, I don't think he has any other choice left for the rest of the 11 on the field. Lampard had no luck with injuries, especially in games against United. Can't put the blame on the manager for unfavourable calls we got from VAR. There are several areas we just aren't improving fast enough, maybe some players can't be taught (like how to put a corner past the first man), others just need more time, He's getting neither at moment. My main criticism on Lampard is when he has options to pick, he's making way too many changes in formation and personnel.  Even after Rudiger came back, we tried every other defender or two to partner him. We tried 3 in the back, Alonso had a great game against Spurs and never got picked again, 1-2 bad games and 343 was over. I'm not even going to get into the whole Kante, Jorginho, Kovacic dilemma.

If he's under pressure because of where we are in the league, I reckon the club is more f* up than just performance on the field.

1 hour ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I dont blame Lampard's philosophy for our defensive frailties. I think the truth of the matter is that our defenders just aren't good enough. Among our senior centre-backs for example, Rudiger and azpi on his good days are the only ones that might have a chance to start for any of our rivals and that's even still uncertain. Obviously Reece and Tomori aren't lumped in this category since they are still young and developing but the rest of our defenders just aren't good enough imo. And then there is our world's most expensive keeper who has question marks written all over him.

Its a bit harsh to put a lot of blame on Kepa when the defence dont help out whatsoever. If we improve our defence, then i am confident Kepa will be better as well

12 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Good win tonight, but you'd have to be a world class football masochist to want us to emulate Atletico ... they have just 25 goals scored in 24 games in La Liga this seaason ... and not all Morata's fault either LOL

Liverpool have been mediocre in the CL this season. If Liverpool put a few past Atletico at their place, people will suddenly change their mind on Simeone. Happens all the time. Then again, I also think teams just bend over for Liverpool in the PL, as well as VAR being kind to them. 

I dont get the criticism of starting Batshuayi over Giroud, lets be honest both strikers are impact subs and whichever came on off the bench would've looked better than the one who started.

Cant blame Lampard for starting Bayshuayi considering he is more mobile and the more likely to play the full 90 (if he was playing well) due to his fitness levels.

Have to agree with the likes of @Davey Baby, @Brutos, @JM7.... We know there are shortcomings in the squad (large ones at that) however, he should be getting better results with the players at his disposal. This isn't a wobble... It's been going on since November. His performance should be viewed objectively just like any other manager that's been here (as he would expect) and recent results have been terrible. The same basic errors being made time and time again. The facts speak for themselves. 

I'm hoping that with Son also out, we might have a chance of beating Spurs on Saturday, but we don't seem able to defend properly. So called inferior teams have already scored two or three against us this season...

Despite our tougher run in, I still believe we can finish 4th, but something has to give. If we keep setting up and playing the same way, I'm afraid nothing will change. 

Edited February 19, 20206 yr by Elliott

Forgetting for a moment or three, Frank's status as a Chelsea legend: this season we have a young, massively inexperienced manager in the first post-Eden Hazard era season, coinciding with Kante"s disconcerting drop in form, after effects of the transfer ban - which for various reasons were not addressed last month; crucial injuries to an already thin,  lightweight squad. All that without the f**kwittery that is VAR, and the season is clearly not the massive underachievement that some of you would have it.

On the plus side, we've seen more academy players make the transition to the first time since... well ever. And we've seen some genuinely exciting, entertaining foorball. So what do we do? Write off Frank Lampard as not up to the job? Bring yet another manager aiming for instant success?

Or do we wait for the end of this season, make serious inroads into the transfer market, giving Frank full backing, giving him the time and opportunity to gain experience, to learn from his mistakes, continue to integrate academy players whenever possible. In short to do things differently - to do things the way many of us have been crying out for, applying a long term strategy, rather than the short term panic buying and revolving door management policy that has invariably accompanied demands for instant success.

It's a no-brainer really, don't you think?

No body is writing off Lampard all some of us saying if you want to become a top class manager adjust to your current situation.

 

Everyone keeps mentioning Hazard, young squad and injuries which are valid, however, what is not valid is people looking past Lampard inability to stop the rot adjust to the current situationtake a step back and let's get some clean sheets and PLAY to our current strengths and not our precieved STRENGTHS. How many times barring Arsenal or maybe another has he made a change that won us the match for a losing position or even put the team winning under pressure?

 

Most are giving him a pass because he's a club legend and would bend over backwards to find an excuse for him , sorry I don't buy into that.

Lampard as a player and manager are different in my eyes he has to once again prove his status as manager just like he did as player and currently he's falling short.

 

If we had a foreign manager now who was doing exactly what Lampard is now doing the amount of abuse and vitriol that would be aimed at him.

 

My views and opinions are currently we do not have the player's to play Hollywood football so go back to basics start with defending properly, it's mid way through the season it appears he can't organise the defence properly he can't depend on individual skill constantly to defend it's a team game the structure and framework need to be in place so everyone knows their role.

 

Or is that Sarri was right and getting plan A working is more important than getting the right results and thinking about plan B when he kept getting blasted for one way of playing[emoji848]

 

4 minutes ago, Brutos said:

take a step back and let's get some clean sheets

So you think that the manager is telling the team to go out and forget about clean sheets, and that the team go along with that, and you don't think that conceding goals is, for the most part, a matter of just sometimes sh*t happens, a long series of actions that all come together to the benefit of an opponent?

 

Really, most people need to realise that real world football is NOT like playing FIFA whatever year on your X-box.

The knives are out, watch your back Frankie boy.

26 minutes ago, Brutos said:

Most are giving him a pass because he's a club legend and would bend over backwards to find an excuse for him , sorry I don't buy into that.

Also because he's integrating youth and our own academy-products like no-one else in modern Chelsea-history. One shouldn't forget that about 30 percent of the players in the XI every week were playing in the Championship last season, and that's before you take the likes of Hudson Odoi into consideration. It should be obvious to everyone that this would take time, lots of time actually.

 

So you think that the manager is telling the team to go out and forget about clean sheets, and that the team go along with that, and you don't think that conceding goals is, for the most part, a matter of just sometimes sh*t happens, a long series of actions that all come together to the benefit of an opponent?
 
Really, most people need to realise that real world football is NOT like playing FIFA whatever year on your X-box.

Yeah sh*t has been happening all season which indicates it's more than just "sh*t happening" and down to the way we setup tactically you can buy the best defenders in every position if you don't instruct them correctly nothing will change.
I thought the United match was a one off at the start but we are in February and we are still seeing the same vulnerabilities that's not just "sh*t happen"

Carragher highlighted this on Monday also before the match you can drive two London double decker through us.

We are also still vulnerable to crosses...any ball into our box chances are high it ends with a chance on goal

Also because he's integrating youth and our own academy-products like no-one else in modern Chelsea-history. One shouldn't forget that about 30 percent of the players in the XI every week were playing in the Championship last season, and that's before you take the likes of Hudson Odoi into consideration. It should be obvious to everyone that this would take time, lots of time actually.

 

And that is why I don't want him to leave but it's frustrating the absolute hell out of me the way we still concede goals and lose.

the point you made about championship players comes back to my point play to your current strengths if you don't have Hollywood players be humble and play theatre football until you have Hollywood players then produce the box office hits.

 

No one I saying abandon your principles fully absolutely not, what am saying is try get confidence and form back with some humble honest performance.

 

Simple football....

17 minutes ago, Brutos said:

down to the way we setup tactically you can buy the best defenders in every position if you don't instruct them correctly nothing will change.

These are professional footballers, they don't need to be instructed in how to play their game.  Coaches can improve and teach, and managers can determine tactics and tell the players what those tactics are, but even at Sunday league level, players do not need instruction in how to play in their specialist position. No manager or coach can legislate for players slipping or being drawn out of position, but really and truly, in 90% of cases, the fact is that the player who scores just played better or got luckier than the defender, or, if the defender stops a goal, he played better or got luckier than the attacker.

 

And in exactly 93% of those cases, it's got luckier.

2 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

These are professional footballers, they don't need to be instructed in how to play their game.  Coaches can improve and teach, and managers can determine tactics and tell the players what those tactics are, but even at Sunday league level, players do not need instruction in how to play in their specialist position. No manager or coach can legislate for players slipping or being drawn out of position, but really and truly, in 90% of cases, the fact is that the player who scores just played better or got luckier than the defender, or, if the defender stops a goal, he played better or got luckier than the attacker.

 

And in exactly 93% of those cases, it's got luckier.

That sounds like Harry Redknapp talk to me mate!

4 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

That sounds like Harry Redknapp talk to me mate!

It's a simple game, 'Arry, dubbin your boots on a Sunday, don't get too pissed on Saturday lunchtime and don't forget your kit, and never, ever more than one packet of No. 6 in any one training session.

 

Oh, and remember it's always your best blazer on Cup Final day.

Its clear we need 3 or 4 big name players to come in to make us properly competitive at the top again. 

Its going to be very difficult to get those players, everyone above us wants strengthen and we will be naturally down the pecking order. 

21 hours ago, chiefBlueCFC said:

I don't see how Lampard can pick Batshuayi over Giroud going forward. 

I can. You only have to look back at the West Ham match day thread (yeah, I was bored at work), which is the last time I can remember him starting:

• "Now there simply can't be any more confusion about Giroud, there was a good reason why he didn't play prior to this game and for 70 minutes it felt like we had a player less."
• "Awful performance. Awful result. I seriously underestimated Abraham's absence and the negative impact it would have on our team. Pedro and Giroud are finished with us."
• "As reactionary as it might sound after that performance I don't think Giroud should ever play again, he looks way out of his depth and can't keep up with the pace of the game. Hope to see a January exit."
• "Attack was too rushed and predictable, no creativity. Pulisic isn't suited for games like this imho, he's better suited for the counter attack. Willian did his best against a parked bus. Pedro and Giroud are gone."
• "Time to retire Giroud, Willian and Pedro, they were just getting in the way today."
• "Unacceptable. Dreadful result against dross. When we're playing players like Giroud and Pedro who are barely good enough for their team we'll never achieve anything"
• "Hard to watch, especially against that lot. Giroud was a big mistake but lesson learnt I hope, don't think anyone can argue for his inclusion again. His next appearance should be at Heathrow."

I've never been a big fan of Batshuayi (nor Giroud, to be honest) but he's never beeen as bad before as he was on Monday. So I'm not going to be questioning Lampard's judgement for picking one bad option over another, this is all he has to work with.

Giroud deserves a run, Bats reminds me of Furlong in an earlier generation.

No doubt about the technical ability just unable to read the game.

5 hours ago, Elliott said:

Have to agree with the likes of @Davey Baby, @Brutos, @JM7.... We know there are shortcomings in the squad (large ones at that) however, he should be getting better results with the players at his disposal. This isn't a wobble... It's been going on since November. His performance should be viewed objectively just like any other manager that's been here (as he would expect) and recent results have been terrible. The same basic errors being made time and time again. The facts speak for themselves. 

1) do we really have players which would mean a top 4? Without a shadow of doubt our forwards are the worst as compared to spurs, utd, Arse, Leicester... mid field is comparable.. defenders are comparable and a poorer keeper. So I don’t think your argument of given our current players we shld be doing better holds

2) yes basic errors are being made but is it on SFL and his team or the players who are not able to download information and execute..

i think for this squad to finish top 4 would be a great achievement.. we are at least 2 seasons away from harbouring hopes of a serious challenge!

9 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

Who else do you think he should be picking for the squad, then?  I can see Batshuayi is a mistake, but who else?  Serious question.

I've been curious about Tomori not playing as of late. I guess that could be due to the amount of games he played in 2019, so Lampard could be giving him a rest. I also thought Mount should've started from the beginning of the match; potentially for Pedro, but he has played the same amount as Tomori or close to it. 

Now, when I say it's on Lampard, I want to make clear that I'm criticizing his selection but in no way am I hinting that this is problem in the sense that he needs to sacked, bc that is absolutely outrageous; especially when he hasn't had a real opportunity to add players to the squad. So, maybe my criticism of Lampard isn't directed entirely correctly and its an overall shared blame between him, some of the players that he is forced to play due to injury and them not being good enough/past their prime, and the board not giving Lampard anything additional in the January window. 

I wonder if he's made a decision to take tomori out of the firing line, we don't know how he has reacted to his mistakes and it could be he's being protected,. He's our future centre back for many years to come if brought through right, he's still a kid.