2 hours ago, Munkworth said:

Wow. Promised two seasons my arse. 

This didn't age well 😐

https://www.football365.com/news/has-roman-promised-lampard-two-chelsea-seasons

2 hours ago, Argo said:

I wonder which coaches are going and which are staying.

I imagine Jody is going, Barry is staying, Edwards could go either way. 

Looks like Jody is gone.

https://www.football.london/chelsea-fc/news/chelsea-jody-morris-leaves-club-19695403

1 minute ago, TF141 said:

Yeah thats fair, but that was Conte in all fairness who made some awful awful signings

Conte didn't want Bakayoko. Conte was in fact mad after the club decided to let go of Matic and Conte wanted Alex Sandro and Lukaku. 

19 minutes ago, Liam said:

I completely agree. I'm not from London, not even English, but supporting Chelsea is not a decision I made. I support Chelsea because as a 6-year-old in 1970, when I kicked a ball with my mates, in my head I was wearing blue and called Peter! It is a visceral thing. 

In the 80s when I would get the bus to the ferry, and then the train from Holyhead, then the bus to the ground, to see us beaten 1-4 by Oxford, it was still the best day of the year just to get a chance to stand with other supporters and sing myself hoarse.

Then Abromovich arrived and everything changed. We started winning and of course I celebrated while not really liking the style of football or the ethos of the club, in particular the nastiness that Jose brought. That changed with the Champions League win, for sure the best night of my life, thanks to MIke, a kind member of this forum who got me the ticket. It felt like a victory for the club and its supporters with a decent man at the helm and a team full of legends.

When Frank was appointed it felt like we had become Chelsea again. It wouldn't have mattered to me if we finished 4th bottom this season I think we should have stood by Frank. The club would have survived, and as as a supporter for whom supporting a club is not to fulfill a vicarious desire to be a winner. my love for the club would have survived too. I am sick to my stomach this morning. This was our chance to show that the club could retain its soul. 

I just feel so sad.

Brilliantly said !!

24 minutes ago, Argo said:

What's even more strange is they're  lashing out at him for methods that are proven to work.

I think it was around the time Conte was sacked that some people pointed out we've kept winning silverware during the Abramovich years when managers got the sack every two years or so. That in itself is not proof that the revolving policy is the reason why we won prizes or even if there's a correlation at all with the policy. We will never know whether we might have won more  (or less [gasp]) had we stuck with a manager here or there for longer. Anyway, I got a feeling with every season it gets harder to finish top-4 or to actually win a cup. 

Edited January 25, 20215 yr by Valerie

2 minutes ago, TF141 said:

Not too much on the forum in all fairness, but there's a lot im seeing on social media

Yeah but not on here because we have some class on here you know,

After yesterday's result I was shocked to read that he'd gone today.

The strange thing is I'm not shocked he's been sacked though. The football has been awful for a while now and Roman isn't known for putting up with poor results for too long.

Just for a bit of unemotional perspective.. our league record under Frank is the worst of ANY manager since Roman took over, and the fact that we've only beaten one team in the top ten this season is not really acceptable.

As a supporter all my life I am gutted for him, more than any other sacking but for me it has and always will be the club, Chelsea fc first and foremost.

Good luck Frank, I'm sure you'll be back in the future.

45 minutes ago, Valhalla said:

football's more of a business than sport now im afraid. if it wasnt already apparent from all the TV deals with Sky and BT. the club mainly cares about winning and we're not alone in that regard.

 

This is TRUE of every sports, everywhere; not just football. American Football, Basketball, Baseball, etc. It is a BUSINESS. Rich business men pay billions and hundred of millions for a team, not because they LOVE sports, but because they're in it to make MONEY!

 

 

Just now, Valerie said:

I think it was around the time Conte was sacked that some people pointed out we've kept winning silverware during the Abramovich years when managers got the sack every two years or so. That in itself is not proof that this policy is the reason why we won prizes. We will never know whether we might have won more had we stuck with a manager here or there for longer. Anyway, I got a feeling with every season it gets harder to finish top-4 or to actually win a cup. 

It's clearly not a sustainable model to work with. Klopp and Pep didn't win right away but their clubs stuck with them, that's the model that traditionally works the most, it brings stability.

21 minutes ago, Liam said:

I completely agree. I'm not from London, not even English, but supporting Chelsea is not a decision I made. I support Chelsea because as a 6-year-old in 1970, when I kicked a ball with my mates, in my head I was wearing blue and called Peter! It is a visceral thing. 

In the 80s when I would get the bus to the ferry, and then the train from Holyhead, then the bus to the ground, to see us beaten 1-4 by Oxford, it was still the best day of the year just to get a chance to stand with other supporters and sing myself hoarse.

Then Abromovich arrived and everything changed. We started winning and of course I celebrated while not really liking the style of football or the ethos of the club, in particular the nastiness that Jose brought. That changed with the Champions League win, for sure the best night of my life, thanks to MIke, a kind member of this forum who got me the ticket. It felt like a victory for the club and its supporters with a decent man at the helm and a team full of legends.

When Frank was appointed it felt like we had become Chelsea again. It wouldn't have mattered to me if we finished 4th bottom this season I think we should have stood by Frank. The club would have survived, and as as a supporter for whom supporting a club is not to fulfill a vicarious desire to be a winner. my love for the club would have survived too. I am sick to my stomach this morning. This was our chance to show that the club could retain its soul. 

I just feel so sad.

I feel your sentiment, but the fact is that football back in the 70's and 80's just isnt what it is now, its a completely different sport and more of a business than anything.

All that matters now is winning trophies, and because we have gotten so used to it its hard for the heirarchy to see us regress and go back to being a team that doesnt win silverware often

So who’s in charge for Wolves?

Wow, I really cant believe that the fans asking for Frank to be released from his duties are being slammed as plastic, glory hunters, etc. This is just outrageous and its not like they were calling for his head without a solid argument for that claim. Each and every one of us asking for a change listed out arguments as to why we want it and when this is all a fact, we are being bashed as plastic. I am sorry, but this is idiotic. We are all fans of the same club and being shamed for asking a change is not the way to do it. 

I can understand why the old guard here have their arguments, however, if we were to think with our heads and not hearts, we would see that today is not any different than other times when a manager go the axe. Take Sarri for example. People were calling for him to be fired 5 matches into the season. Why were no one mentioning morals and values of the club. We need to be able to distinguish Frank the player and Frank the Manager. His legacy will never be questioned here, he will always be a blue, no matter what and I do believe that if he improves on his knowledge and experience, he will be back one day with JT on the wheel, prove us all wrong and finish what he started.

There is no denying that there is a lot of logic behind the sacking. Many valid arguments have been made by the others. Some of the bullet points are as follows: 

 - We are 6 months into the season and we never got an identity and a solid starting XI. Even during the winning streak, we were looking shaky and clumsy and there was always the impression things were not going well;

 - I am willing to agree that Frank was also selecting players based on his preferences and not actual work being done on the training ground and the pitch. For example, Mount has played on multiple different positions this season with the sole purpose of him being in the squad. I respect that he is a lad from the Academy and all but there were numerous occasions when he was abysmal and never got to the bench. I dont know what is going on during training, but I do believe that there were other players who deserved more to be on the pitch than him. 

 - Frank was outclassed and outcoached by other managers despite them not having the resource he has at our club. And I am not talking about Carlo, Klopp and Pep. I am talking about Santo, Arteta, Hassenhutl, Rodgers, even Scott Parker was going to take points off of him, only a dumb play by a player of his prevented him from that otherwise the game was going strictly in his favour;

 - We never got a style of play that we all hoped we would have in the summer. We were only relying on possession based football and countless of meaningless crosses when we were clearly not suited for that, especially when our only capable player - Giroud was on the bench;

- Frank's record as a manager is the worst of every other manager we had during the Roman era. That alone is a fact that can not be ignored and some would argue that even AVB had more ground to be given more time; 

Its understandable to say the least why most of the fans are reacting this way. But bashing the others that agree with the decision is not the way. It will only divide us during these hard times and will lead to no good. I am not confident in Tuchel either and was much preferring to see Allegri take over but we need to trust Roman as he is the one who brought us where we are now. 

Anyway, I wish Frank all of the best, I sincerely hope he will find a place where he will be able to fully show his potential and gain the necessary experience and knowledge to succeed at the top flight. I will happily accept him back if he were to take this job again in the future. 

3 minutes ago, Valerie said:

I think it was around the time Conte was sacked that some people pointed out we've kept winning silverware during the Abramovich years when managers got the sack every two years or so. That in itself is not proof that the revolving policy is the reason why we won prizes or even if there's a correlation at all with the policy. We will never know whether we might have won more  (or less [gasp]) had we stuck with a manager here or there for longer. Anyway, I got a feeling with every season it gets harder to finish top-4 or to actually win a cup. 

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing i would love more than to find our SAF, Klopp or even pre stubborn Wenger but in my opinion sticking with manager for stability sake will ultimately make us less likely to find the man we can settle down with, so to speak.

People will cite Liverpool sticking with Klopp but they eventually found him because of their hire and fire policy and Arsenal missed out on him because of their obsession with sticking by Wenger. The three managers before him in FSGs reign (one of them being a club legend) were sharply fired when it wasn't working which eventually led them to Jurgen. Compare that to the 12 years before that 6 years each of Houllier and Rafa in which they spent almost the entire time in the shadows of United, Arsenal and us with no real signs it was going to change.

4 hours ago, MANoWAR said:

https://theathletic.com/2298337/2021/01/25/lampards-chelsea-sacking-tension-with-marina-unhappy-players-and-secret-job-offers

Completely pilfered from Reddit (who has access to the article) https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/l4la7l/lampards_chelsea_sacking_tension_with_marina/

 

• Lampard’s relationship with influential director Marina Granovskaia deteriorated

• Ralf Rangnick was offered interim job last week for four months but turned it down

• Calls were made in recent weeks to sound out Leipzig’s Julian Nagelsmann

• Leicester game was tipping point and morning after spent trying to finalise successor

• Lampard shook players hands and thanked them for efforts under him after Leicester match

• Petr Cech involved in talking to new stars’ agents as form dipped

• Some players complained about lack of tactical instruction and not being spoken to for months

• Desire to re-sign Declan Rice annoyed his bosses

• The dressing room felt manager showed no empathy and were hurt by his public criticism

• Lampard would have walked out had he been working for any club other than Chelsea

 

 

• tensions behind the scenes really began to emerge during the January transfer window 12 months ago. Lampard asked for Arsenal forward Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, who was considering leaving Emirates Stadium at that juncture, and Ajax’s attacking midfielder Hakim Ziyech. Neither arrived that month

• it was at this juncture that Mauricio Pochettino, who had been fired by Tottenham in November 2019, and RB Leipzig coach Nagelsmann were being mentioned as a potential “plan B”.

• things were becoming more tense with Granovskaia and one of the biggest points of contention was the treatment of goalkeeper Kepa Arrizabalaga. “They clashed over Kepa. Lampard put in a request for a replacement and was told he should try putting his arm around Kepa, to help build his confidence. Lampard was insistent though.”

• Lampard wanted the club to sign West Ham midfielder Declan Rice and pushed for him again ahead of January. But some at the club had reservations about re-signing the player who was released from the academy as a teenager.

• In December The Athletic were told: “He needs to stop pushing for Rice or he’ll lose his job. The hierarchy are very wary about the potential embarrassment of buying back an academy reject at huge expense.”

• of the six players to join, only Ben Chilwell was a Lampard target.

• plan was not only to acquire Rice, who Lampard felt could be converted into a top centre back as well as using him as a defensive midfielder, but also to buy James Tarkowski from Burnley. Defenders earmarked to go were Fikayo Tomori, Marcos Alonso, and Rudiger. There was even talk that Lampard was open to the idea of captain Cesar Azpilicueta departing.

• after the Manchester City game, Roman became “very, very unhappy”. ( After the season relationship between Roman and Lampard was "strong"

• Tuchel was reluctant to come midway through the season initially but was eventually persuaded, having almost taken the Stamford Bridge job before Antonio Conte a few years ago. He felt it was too good a job to turn down.

• “The problem was, the manager didn’t talk to the players — well only the ones he liked"

• One senior player told The Athletic that Lampard staying on for the rest of the season would have been a ‘catastrophe’, with the levels of tension in the dressing room to high to recover from and players comparing his criticism of performances to Jose Mourinho in his final days at the club.

• By the Fulham game in early January, players were expecting Lampard to be sacked if they didn’t win

• Lampard warned everyone, including the hierarchy, that a title bid was unlikely in 2020-21, that the arrivals would require patience to settle into a new league and country.

Thanks to the user who posted it - I'm just pasting for those who aren't on the site. 

So Frank wanted Ziyech but only Chilwell was his signing. Makes sense.

1 minute ago, Gol15 said:

It's clearly not a sustainable model to work with. Klopp and Pep didn't win right away but their clubs stuck with them, that's the model that traditionally works the most, it brings stability.

Agree.

We've done well to continue winning trophies in spite of regular coaching changes, but I do wonder whether this is now catching up with us. It means a new coach inheriting a squad he didn't build at his own accord, and always seeking to buy new players that suits his style. Once things inevitably go downhill after a season or two, we repeat the process all over again.

If you look at club performance in recent years, we've been a 3rd-6th team domestically since mid-2017. The 2016/17 season was the last great season we had and that was off the back of a terrible 2015/16 season as well. The club hasn't advanced beyond the last 16 of the Champions League since 2014 which would have been unimaginable from 2004-2014 when we were regularly competing deep into the tournament.

The squad in the early Abramovich years was very strong in terms of quality on the pitch, leadership and mental resilience that it only needed a half decent manager for us to win trophies and compete at the top.

Times have changed that you need to invest in a medium to long-term project to be successful now. Liverpool and Manchester City have been the gold standard in the last few years in this regard.

Fundamentally, Abramovich isn't a patient man and this comes with the territory of being a Chelsea supporter. You'll win silverware on a regular basis, but it comes at the cost of having to endure bad days like today. Always surprises me that supporters think he will change his ways.

People confused why we sacked Frank now and not Leicester. Maybe the board knew Luton was a banker win and wanted his last game with us to be just that, such is the respect for him.

18 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Conte didn't want Bakayoko. Conte was in fact mad after the club decided to let go of Matic and Conte wanted Alex Sandro and Lukaku. 

And because he didnt get his first choice targets the bloke decided to cry about it and gave up.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing i would love more than to find our SAF, Klopp or even pre stubborn Wenger but in my opinion sticking with manager for stability sake will ultimately make us less likely to find the man we can settle down with, so to speak.

People will cite Liverpool sticking with Klopp but they eventually found him because of their hire and fire policy and Arsenal missed out on him because of their obsession with sticking by Wenger. The three managers before him in FSGs reign (one of them being a club legend) were sharply fired when it wasn't working which eventually led them to Jurgen. Compare that to the 12 years before that 6 years each of Houllier and Rafa in which they spent almost the entire time in the shadows of United, Arsenal and us with no real signs it was going to change.

This is simply a bad narrative, Arsenal and Man United had huge managers: Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger. They didn't want to give up on them, Wenger was getting Arsenal into top 4 with 0 money invested for decent time period but when he stopped finishing in top 4, when he stopped delivering that, they sacked him. Wenger finished one season 5th, the next one 6th and that was enough for Arsenal to move on from Wenger so they didn't have any obsession, the owner was very happy to be able to build a whole new stadium without any debts and loans.

Liverpool simply didn't have such a figure at the club so naturally they were looking to get what their rivals already had, it's not true that Arsenal missed out because of an obsession, you could then argue that all clubs missed out because of something since Liverpool finally won the league in 30 years which is simply a bad argument. Rafa won them the CL too.

You're almost sounding like you think it's totally legit to simply sack the manager as soon as he doesn't deliver. Very fast you'll run out of candidates for the job then.

1 minute ago, KonaKai Blue said:

People confused why we sacked Frank now and not Leicester. Maybe the board knew Luton was a banker win and wanted his last game with us to be just that, such is the respect for him.

A bit of a risk though - what if we had lost?

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

And to the people who are demanding patience now, many of them had little with Sarri. Argo actually exposed a user on here the other day for it, who was calling for Sarri's head in November/December meanwhile calling people who want Lampard replaced after a year 1/2 the "Xbox brigade" and "fickle" whatever else. 

That's my gripe with some on here Slojo. They want a manager out or in based on their affinity for him and not what he's capable of delivering.

I don't care whose Ox is gored. Can he get the job done? Is he meeting and exceeding KPIs? 

If not, out with the old and in with the new. As many times as required. This isn't a chicken change industry. Billions are at stake. A man investing such billions has the right to sack a manager every month if he can afford it and thinks its the right thing to do to move his business forward. 

1 minute ago, Pob said:

A bit of a risk though - what if we had lost?

A risk worth taking. If we lost then what they thought was a majority decision to sack him would be unanimous.

1 minute ago, jack_super_class said:

And because he didnt get his first choice targets the bloke decided to cry about it and gave up.

He actually said that he was happy with Morata and that he believed that Morata can grow into the striker to lead the line for us because he worked with him before... He was dead wrong on that.

I simply can't understand why the board didn't just fully back Conte after he won the PL in his first season. I mean I do understand why, the board got greedy and thought that Conte was making too much of a big deal since after all we are the best squad in the league... Klopp and Pep couldn't win in their own first seasons yet their clubs kept backing them fully, that's the difference, ultimately our board will make us a worse club in this thing keeps happening.

But I understand the board since they probably listened to Jose when he said that the club doesn't need De Bruyne so from that point on it's them who decide who is to come and who is to stay, yet not every manager is the same. Our problems go deeper than who is our manager at any given time, that much is clear.

I hear a lot of talk about morals, at high-level business, morals get left at the door, eat or be eaten, and especially in a cutthroat industry like football.
Some fans still think this is the 60's,70's or 80's, which gives you great memories of your childhood running around watching Chelsea.
I appreciate and respect that those memories are great for you; however, this is 2021. Football back then was not so much a business like it is now, with TV money, sponsors having agreements on where you need to be to get your bonus, social media, shareholders, etc... the list goes on.
So this attachment to Frank is understandable, but in a business sense means nothing as results speak for themselves.
Roman wants immediate ROI or some indication that there is progress on his ROI, but unfortunately, there is none. With Lampard losing the dressing room, there was zero chance of him turning it around barring selling half the team, and that's was never going to happen.

3 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

A risk worth taking. If we lost then what they thought was a majority decision to sack him would be unanimous.

Taking a risk in order to show respect to Frank was more important than ensuring we stayed in the only competition we realistically have a chance of winning this season?

1 hour ago, Brutos said:

 

The theathletic.com article is quiet eye opening

• One senior player told The Athletic that Lampard staying on for the rest of the season would have been a ‘catastrophe’, with the levels of tension in the dressing room to high to recover from and players comparing his criticism of performances to Jose Mourinho in his final days at the club

Do i misunderstand something? The only two players i know who were there in Jose's last season are Azpi and Zouma. 

So why go to the press right away when your Manager is sacked... 

1 minute ago, Pob said:

Taking a risk in order to show respect to Frank was more important than ensuring we stayed in the only competition we realistically have a chance of winning this season?

The risk was minimal. It's Luton. That's a match we should be winning even if we had Dave as head coach.