11 hours ago, BordeauxBlue said:

He didn't have a great game, but thought he was the victim of the managers choices tonight. 

He was just as poor as Sterling and Grealish, which is a tell-tale sign of a bad system. 

58 minutes ago, evissy said:

Mount is much better in a high octane counter pressing side which England isn't. He really didn't fit in that Southgate system. Well to be fair it doesn't support his best traits. Southgate played him because he is such a brilliant team player and he covers any player on the field. In terms of attack he did nothing significant in these last two matches. 

What he needs to improve is his open player passing. Cut backs especially for him are hard. I don't remember him nailing those recently. 

Sancho, Saka and Grealish didn't really do much either to be honest. 

It's been Said a thousand times but Mount is not a winger....hes never gonna be a winger.  Southgate has to know this!  Play only 3 attacking players and Mount OOP is insane. 

25 minutes ago, Browerkid said:

  Southgate has to know this!  Play only 3 attacking players and Mount OOP is insane. 

But Chelsea did the same thing and won the ucl

And so it begins

 

 

f**k the haters. They have no idea what they're talking about. I bet if you ask them to substantiate their case they wouldn't be able to bring forward one single sensible argument. 

2 minutes ago, Term_X said:

And so it begins

 

 

Yup, skysports was first with their 4 out of 10 rating. The sheep will follow.

10 minutes ago, Term_X said:

And so it begins

 

 

Apparently that guy is an Arsenal supporter ... which explains everything quite nicely ... 🙂 

1 hour ago, The Don Antonio said:

But Chelsea did the same thing and won the ucl

May be the same position on paper but realistically it's a totally different role he plays.

Tuchel has him operating in the pockets as almost a hybrid CM/second forward, Southgate basically stuck him out on the wing.

There's levels to it.

11 minutes ago, Argo said:

May be the same position on paper but realistically it's a totally different role he plays.

Tuchel has him operating in the pockets as almost a hybrid CM/second forward, Southgate basically stuck him out on the wing.

There's levels to it.

In the long term playing him as a second forward in a 3-4-3 also doesn’t help him though, he will be expected to put up big numbers which isn’t his game. If he continues playing in that role you will be judging his output against your Rashford, Sancho, Grealish, Saka, Foden etc which does him no favours. 
His ideal position is an “8” in a 4-3-3, where his best attributes; off the ball movement and pressing come into play. Personally can’t see how the 3-4-3 helps him or James (who Tuchel sees as a CB) with the England team.

9 minutes ago, ducavis said:

In the long term playing him as a second forward in a 3-4-3 also doesn’t help him though, he will be expected to put up big numbers which isn’t his game. If he continues playing in that role you will be judging his output against your Rashford, Sancho, Grealish, Saka, Foden etc which does him no favours. 
His ideal position is an “8” in a 4-3-3, where his best attributes; off the ball movement and pressing come into play. Personally can’t see how the 3-4-3 helps him or James (who Tuchel sees as a CB) with the England team.

Maybe, but imagine either Werner starting to converse more and/or Havertz stepping up his game as expected and/or Haaland entering the show (-> elite striker) I do think Mount would score more as well (mostly assists probably but that wouldn't really matter) or would at least seen as one crucial part of one hell of an offense - no matter his individual stats. I think he (and the whole team) had enough brilliant displays wihtin the 343 that the formation itself isn't the problem imho.

Nevertheless I totally agree and really hope that TT gets a 433 on the way next season as well with Mount alongside Jorgi and Kanté. Could be amazing if it works and would immediately help our present forwards tremendoulsy already (and since it's been in the random rumours thread: I can see a Griezmann fully work within that three upfront with Mount behind but that's OT) - question remains about the back four and could be the deal-breaker.

Edited July 12, 20215 yr by weetee

16 minutes ago, ducavis said:

In the long term playing him as a second forward in a 3-4-3 also doesn’t help him though, he will be expected to put up big numbers which isn’t his game. If he continues playing in that role you will be judging his output against your Rashford, Sancho, Grealish, Saka, Foden etc which does him no favours. 
His ideal position is an “8” in a 4-3-3, where his best attributes; off the ball movement and pressing come into play. Personally can’t see how the 3-4-3 helps him or James (who Tuchel sees as a CB) with the England team.

RCB in a back three isn't world's away from RB anyway so he will easily be able to go back and forth.

With Mount I think the hope is Werner and Havertz start putting up the numbers (the latter i am totally sure will and surely the former will on law of averages alone) which means Mount can focus on what he's good at.

Although that said I hope our formations are a bit more flexible next season now Tuchel has more time on the training pitch.

39 minutes ago, Argo said:

May be the same position on paper but realistically it's a totally different role he plays.

Tuchel has him operating in the pockets as almost a hybrid CM/second forward, Southgate basically stuck him out on the wing.

There's levels to it.

Despite England reaching the final IMO Southgate isn't good enough for England, I don't want him to ruin this new generation that is full of talent.

27 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Despite England reaching the final IMO Southgate isn't good enough for England, I don't want him to ruin this new generation that is full of talent.

I'd have had that opinion even if he won. Would be like Arteta and Redknapp winning the FA Cup or McLeish winning the League Cup, nice moment in isolation but changes nothing in the grand scheme of the things.

Last night was utterly abysmal game management, I called Saka missing a penalty before even normal time was up, the occasion was too much for him and to give him the last penalty absolutely beggars belief.

in a second full season he has literally played 70 games... my apologies if he looked a bit stale.. this is the problem with England international football.. clubs are literally more important to ppl than the national team.

18 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

He wasn't his usual, but he wasn't the worst player, Sterling, Kane, Rice, pretty ineffective...

Sterling and Kane were poor but Rice? Thought he was our best players and we looked a lot worse once he went off.

Mount has had an unbelievable season but will always have games where is doesn't happen for him and last night was one of those. Southgate will have done him no favours by keeping him on as long as he did when we clearly needed other options and fresh legs. Hope he gets a decent few weeks off now and a well earned rest. 

For Chelsea he excels between the lines, receiving the ball on the turn and driving into space.

For England he basically just played as a defensive winger. It's very different and unsurprising we didn't see the best of him.

How many forward players are going to thrive when the manager plays seven (7) defensive players in the first eleven?

It's sad Mason is turning into the scapegoat for this. None of the forward players had a kick last night and all of Kane's touches were outside the box.

Too defensive and he held the players back because he's a coward (Southgate)

Edited July 12, 20215 yr by Luca Vialli

11 hours ago, Luca Vialli said:

How many forward players are going to thrive when the manager plays seven (7) defensive players in the first eleven?

It's sad Mason is turning into the scapegoat for this. None of the forward players had a kick last night and all of Kane's touches were outside the box.

Too defensive and he held the players back because he's a coward (Southgate)

What is the difference between England lineup and Tuchel lineup against city? 

Didnt think he had the best tournament tbh, looked tired. 

That being said, the tactics Southgate used does not get the best out of attacking players. 

Not really fussed though, hopefully he gets a nice rest, and carries on performing for us. 

 

As long as he performs for us, I couldn't care less what other fans think of him in an England shirt, or how he performs. 

9 minutes ago, Oli said:

As long as he performs for us, I couldn't care less what other fans think of him in an England shirt, or how he performs. 

I feel the same way. Problem is, Mason himself probably doesn't 

4 minutes ago, Valerie said:

I feel the same way. Problem is, Mason himself probably doesn't 

He definitely doesn't, however when he plays well for us, and he sees the love he gets from the Chelsea fans, I'm sure that will be enough for him, ala Frank.

3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

What is the difference between England lineup and Tuchel lineup against city? 

On paper it may look like nothing but in terms of implementation of the tactics and game management, completely different planets.

The difference in Mount for both managers sums it up, on paper he plays on the side for both but under Tuchel he's patrolling the pockets in a hybrid type role which brings the best out of him while Southgate basically stuck him on the wing and hoped for the best. 

Edited July 13, 20215 yr by Argo

Southgate played Mount as an addition to the sitting 2 of Rice/Phillips, just ahead but almost as defensive. He basically played him as a defensive winger to cover in, which completely negated any of his positive play and made him look surplus to requirements. He should have been used more as an attacker in the final, or not played at all but he brings a huge amount of energy and effort into any midfield so I can see why Southgate was loathe to take him off, but he did him no favours playing him like that.