2 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I see what you mean now and I agree with that! Historically, we've had amazing success with the strategy (Torres the only real flop while Lampard, Cahill, Kante, the Coles, Duff etc. all being among our best-ever players) but if there's one giant hole in our transfer strategy over the last 4-5 years, it's been a lack of targeting domestic players.

Agreed. We've been looking to Europe and failed more often looking for cheaper deals. I'm not saying there aren't better ones overseas but at least we don't fail as much when buying *the best player of the team* in the league. 

29 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

Lukaku absolutely was the top talent at Everton just as Carroll was at Newcastle when Liverpool signed him and Benteke was at Villa.

Fellaini was Evertons best player when United signed him,  Barkley one of their best when we signed him.

The moral isn't just don't sign players from Everton but being premier league proven at a smaller club is no guarantee of success.

Even Klopp has found that out with Oxlaide Chamberlain.  They're not all hits.

It's about identifying the right attributes in a player what league he plays in is irrelevant.

You and I have different definitions of the best player in the team. We can both cherry pick the players so I'll save the time. 

Fact is a higher percentage of transfers made by clubs buying the best players from teams within the same league has more successes than failures. 

I disagree with a majority of your example but I'll use them in this case:

Failure(using your example) : 

Lukaku, Carroll, Benteke, Barkley(after being injured for a while since Chelsea plucked him out of rehab), Fellaini, Torres(after 2 hamstring injuries that destroyed his pace), Maguire, Ox(Isn't even Arsenal's best player but included because according to you)

Successes(from the top of my head):

Lampard, Joe Cole, Ashley Cole, Duff, Kante, Sterling, Kyle Walker, Ashley Young, Mané, Van Dijk, Fabregas(I know has a stint at Barca but he was nurtured in the PL since 16), Mahrez

When the top clubs bought these talents from the lower clubs, it has a much better chance of success. It's shown in leagues throughout the world. Bayern being the best/worst example. 

Having the right attributes doesn't really matter much because most of the time, the best players of the team already have the right attributes as these are absolute creams of the crops. 

The league a player plays in is also a crucial part of the process. It means less time needed for adapting, no homesickness, don't need to uproot families. Very rarely does a Premier League player not work out in a different league but certainly plenty of adapting problems for players from other leagues. I can certainly recall plenty of title wins won just after these players are signed on. 

 

1 hour ago, Deino said:

There are plenty of other comparisons to be used if you don't agree with the Mane one. Fact is, Raphinha scored 11 goals from the wings playing for Leeds producing more than Ziyech in the same league from the same position. 

My initial point is taking the best talents from lower clubs in the same league is a strategy that has worked a majority of time. I see Raphinha as that good of a player with the right tactics and personnel around him. 

I agree signing from pl actually still the best way to get player. Less uncertainty. 

However one thing about mane. All of pool attacker "improve" when they play for pool, heck jota turned into goal scoring machine straight away. 

In our case all of them turn into 🤮🤮. This is something that no one want to talk about. If  it is not just one player then ok but all of them is 🤮🤮

Either klopp is super genius that he can improve player in one week or pool system get the best out of their attacker and our system make it more difficult for attacker to shine. 

 

@Gol15 have our prayers finally been answered?!

Found this interesting. It seems tuchel has decided to hire external consultants for data analysis. What were Scott and team using before? Fifa stats with filters on 75-85?

 

Edited July 4, 20224 yr by RomansRoubles

2 minutes ago, RomansRoubles said:

Found this interesting. It seems tuchel has decided to hire external consultants for data analysis. What were Scott and team using before? Fifa stats stats with filters on 75-85?

 

This is also quite a significant step towards the 'Liverpool Model' as well, which is something that Boehly has said he wants to try and replicate at Chelsea. 

Unless Boehly wants us to go all in on a title at all costs next season I would be happy enough to get De Ligt and (Raheem) Sterling (if we can somehow hijack the De Jong deal to United then him too) and then reacess next summer when we have a proper structure in place.

Tuchel is too good a manager to fail at getting top four and with Gallagher, Broja, Colwill and maybe (Dujon) Sterling and Maatsen good enough to play a role to some degree or another that's a lot of added depth and fresh bodies.

Hard to believe the only players TT has bought are Lukaku who he clearly didn't want and the equally useless Saul.

29 minutes ago, bluehaze said:

Hard to believe the only players TT has bought are Lukaku who he clearly didn't want and the equally useless Saul.

I don't believe he wanted either of them ... probably both club choices ... 

 

❤️

4 minutes ago, azpi28 said:

 

❤️

That was a very warm hug for European champion Harvey Vale!

1 hour ago, Valerie said:

That was a very warm hug for European champion Harvey Vale!

If he's a European Champion does that he's in the firing line for blame every time Lukaku trips over a football next season?

So has been widely reported TT is using the statically metrics he used in Dortmund to identify players to buy, and also the club are looking to hire as many as 8 experts to fulfill this job in recruitment for the future.

It has also been reported that TT has a list of 4 "must have if possible" players, as widely reported in the media and social media.

De Ligt

Ake

Sterling 

Raphinha 

Of those apparently both Juve and De Ligt want a split and he likes the idea of playing for us and TT, Ake likes the idea of a return and a direct route to first team football and is asking City to make a deal.

Sterling is one the fence about it, City happy to sell but he wants a big deal as he sees this as his last big contract for 5 years, so wants a superstars salary, which is problematic.

Raphinha wants Barca, we know that, however they are moving slowly so while it is 99% we lost this one there is rumours they won't sign him IF Dembele re-signs for them and that is causing a hold up. Could be Raphinha is even being used to get Dembele to sign up.

8 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

So has been widely reported TT is using the statically metrics he used in Dortmund to identify players to buy, and also the club are looking to hire as many as 8 experts to fulfill this job in recruitment for the future.

It has also been reported that TT has a list of 4 "must have if possible" players, as widely reported in the media and social media.

De Ligt

Ake

Sterling 

Raphinha 

Of those apparently both Juve and De Ligt want a split and he likes the idea of playing for us and TT, Ake likes the idea of a return and a direct route to first team football and is asking City to make a deal.

Sterling is one the fence about it, City happy to sell but he wants a big deal as he sees this as his last big contract for 5 years, so wants a superstars salary, which is problematic.

Raphinha wants Barca, we know that, however they are moving slowly so while it is 99% we lost this one there is rumours they won't sign him IF Dembele re-signs for them and that is causing a hold up. Could be Raphinha is even being used to get Dembele to sign up.

Sounds like dodgy mayo, If ake and de ligt come in we will have to hope and pray we are in amongst it by dec in order to use january etc, World cup will play havoc on the fixtures either side

1 hour ago, Kantesmini said:

Sounds like dodgy mayo, If ake and de ligt come in we will have to hope and pray we are in amongst it by dec in order to use january etc, World cup will play havoc on the fixtures either side

Makes it look like TT wants this sort of 11

 

Mendy

 

De Ligt

Silva

Ake

 

James

Jorginho 

Kovacic 

Chilwell

 

Raphinha 

Sterling

Mount

Apparently Dave, Broja and Colwill are planning talks with TT and Todd this week.

Dave wants to go to Barca and we will let him it seems, if they can afford his wages.

Broja and Colwill apparently want guarantees of regular play time and know there are already bids in the table for both from PL sides who intend to add them to their starting 11s.

Everton and West Ham have tabled 30mill bids from Broja, Palace and Not Portsmouth but the other south coast side have tabled 20mill plus bids for Colwill.

Edited July 5, 20224 yr by axman2526

On 06/07/2022 at 07:36, axman2526 said:

Apparently Dave, Broja and Colwill are planning talks with TT and Todd this week.

Dave wants to go to Barca and we will let him it seems, if they can afford his wages.

Broja and Colwill apparently want guarantees of regular play time and know there are already bids in the table for both from PL sides who intend to add them to their starting 11s.

Everton and West Ham have tabled 30mill bids from Broja, Palace and Not Portsmouth but the other south coast side have tabled 20mill plus bids for Colwill.

If we sell Colwill, I will start throwing tantrum. We are in this dumb position with cb because we let Guehi and Tomori go. 

Borja on the other hand is complicated. I want him to stay but if I were him west ham is a no brainer. 

10 hours ago, Bob stark said:

If we sell Colwill, I will start throwing tantrum. We are in this dumb position with cb because we let Guehi and Tomori go. 

Borja on the other hand is complicated. I want him to stay but if I were him west ham is a no brainer. 

But honestly not convinced about either.. Tomori made quite a few errors would hardly have been an upgrade over trevoh.. guehi again not strong enough in defence to be a part of our starting 11.. only above Sarr in my pecking order

2 hours ago, Jangz said:

But honestly not convinced about either.. Tomori made quite a few errors would hardly have been an upgrade over trevoh.. guehi again not strong enough in defence to be a part of our starting 11.. only above Sarr in my pecking order

Under Lampard all of our cb looked trash because we played pool fast football with jorgi as their shield. 

 

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2022/7/9/23201748/chelsea-confirm-29-man-traveling-squad-for-usa-tour

Our squad for the US tour, which brought joins with next week.

No Kante or RLC allowed as they are not vaccinated so the US won't allow them in, no Maatsen or D.Sterling either because of vaccine status or because TT has decided to sell or loan then,  Colwill has traveled.

3 hours ago, axman2526 said:

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2022/7/9/23201748/chelsea-confirm-29-man-traveling-squad-for-usa-tour

Our squad for the US tour, which brought joins with next week.

No Kante or RLC allowed as they are not vaccinated so the US won't allow them in, no Maatsen or D.Sterling either because of vaccine status or because TT has decided to sell or loan then,  Colwill has traveled.

Where's Broja ?

ps. got it.

Edited July 9, 20224 yr by Kev56

I want to ask people's opinion on something.

First of all, let me start by saying I like Tuchel very much and hope he continues to work at the club for a long time.

What I wonder about is, does he have much of a pull when it comes to transfers? Do you think players want to join the club when Tuchel comes calling? Seems to be a very personable, humble and charming man who has close relationship with his players and is a winner. And yet time and again, we miss out on high profile targets. You could say it's nothing to do with him, and that may be true but do you have any doubts on the subject of players wanting to come play for Tuchel?

 

11 minutes ago, abramovich said:

I want to ask people's opinion on something.

First of all, let me start by saying I like Tuchel very much and hope he continues to work at the club for a long time.

What I wonder about is, does he have much of a pull when it comes to transfers? Do you think players want to join the club when Tuchel comes calling? Seems to be a very personable, humble and charming man who has close relationship with his players and is a winner. And yet time and again, we miss out on high profile targets. You could say it's nothing to do with him, and that may be true but do you have any doubts on the subject of players wanting to come play for Tuchel?

 

Not really. If we decided to shop in the same market Spurs and Arsenal are they'd be here by now.

The hard reality is when you try and shop in the market clubs like Bayern/Real/Barca are we will miss out on players, happened before Tuchel and will happen after. We're simply not as attractive a proposition as those clubs are.

1 minute ago, abramovich said:

I want to ask people's opinion on something.

First of all, let me start by saying I like Tuchel very much and hope he continues to work at the club for a long time.

What I wonder about is, does he have much of a pull when it comes to transfers? Do you think players want to join the club when Tuchel comes calling? Seems to be a very personable, humble and charming man who has close relationship with his players and is a winner. And yet time and again, we miss out on high profile targets. You could say it's nothing to do with him, and that may be true but do you have any doubts on the subject of players wanting to come play for Tuchel?

 

Hard to say. I do think he can be a complicated (or rather complex) type of person at times, complicated not meant as a negative, and  I do believe he is very demanding. And like everywhere else there will be players/people that prefer a rather less intellectual/demanding and a much more simple approach (say one prefers rather to play under Carlito than Tuchel for example). Just a guess. Other top clubs have good managers as well (and can guarantee CL football - even Barca can do that - while we atm have to fight it out due the competitive nature of the PL).

What we do have to take into account is that the players we are after are linked to the absolute elite juggernauts of the game. Real, Barca, Bayern, City, Pool..eventually Juve too. Those clubs have a global following (City being the extreme exception here) and history that we just can't compete with on an eye to eye level - and some of them have also (much) better perspectives to win titles. On top of that I think we pay less wages than those clubs for top signings - which after all is said and done the very main pull.

 

 

I love that new training kit