7 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

What you're seeing here in this debate is part of the reason we need a new ownership model change. Recently we've only asked he manager what type of player he needs and looked to get 2nd, 3rd or even 4th choice targets.

Often these targets are completely different stylistically to the number 1 target who the manager wanted for a specific role in the team. 

Haaland was the number 1 target last summer we failed to sign him and saw Lukaku as the next best thing.

This is the issue, from now on the board needs to follow the Klopp and Pep approach which is just give Tuchel whoever he wants. It's a risk if say we let him go but imo he should get 5 years here. If he can achieve 3 trophies in one year how many can he acquire in a sustained period with his own players. 

Signing Lukaku may have been a mistake but a valuable lesson for the new owners to see, they can learn from our failure to recruit players that suit Tuchel's intended style. The board should have backed TT and signed Koundé they didn't and now we risk losing 4 defenders this summer if not more. 

Pep and Klopp both constructed their teams in different ways. Klopp acquired the necessary pieces over various windows, as did Pep except he got much more players across the various transfer windows. 

Essentially we have to do what City did after Pep's first season they gave him the fullbacks to play his style. Now we need to give Tuchel the cbs to play his. If he wants a dm get him the one he wants. Or the scouts do their actual jobs and identify players based of a set criteria that actual equates to what the squad needs. 

One of three outcomes will happen regarding Lukaku, he goes on loan, someone buys him and we sell at a loss or he stays. If he stays he can still be useful but a change in shape would be needed.

This take is all wrong though, and we need to stop blaming the board for everything. We didn’t fail to sign Halaand, he just had no interest in playing for us. The Lukaku signing is all on the Tuchel but fans conveniently blame the board whenever a signing doesn’t work out. When Halaand rejected our advances, what a Klopp or a Pep would have done is walk away and work with what they have for that season, while they come up an alternative perfect fit in the upcoming window. Tuchel had burnt his bridge with Tammy by sidelining him once he became the manager, so Tammy was going to leave. Giroud was also shot as a forward in the PL. He could have backed Havertz as his CF, and kept Broja as his backup but he was adamant he needed a “9” so he sanctioned the Lukaku signing.

Didn’t Klopp want Brandt but the board got him Salah?

6 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Didn’t Klopp want Brandt but the board got him Salah?

Well said; and it was their Football Director who convinced him Salah was his man. 
The most important signing we could make this summer is a very good Football Director. 

13 hours ago, ducavis said:

This take is all wrong though, and we need to stop blaming the board for everything. We didn’t fail to sign Halaand, he just had no interest in playing for us. The Lukaku signing is all on the Tuchel but fans conveniently blame the board whenever a signing doesn’t work out. When Halaand rejected our advances, what a Klopp or a Pep would have done is walk away and work with what they have for that season, while they come up an alternative perfect fit in the upcoming window. Tuchel had burnt his bridge with Tammy by sidelining him once he became the manager, so Tammy was going to leave. Giroud was also shot as a forward in the PL. He could have backed Havertz as his CF, and kept Broja as his backup but he was adamant he needed a “9” so he sanctioned the Lukaku signing.

Fans place more blame on the board than Tuchel because they were willing to pay a £100m on a player which hasn't worked out. With that kind of expenditure you expect it to work, they should have done their do diligence. Tuchel gave them a criteria whilst he signed off on the deal he has consistently said he just wants to coach, so get him the players and he will handle the sporting side of things. 

You can berate the decision by Tuchel to allow the sale, yet you would assume the Chelsea scouts would have assured him that this was his man. This despite half the forum on here seeing what I and some others couldn't, that this deal was just doomed from the beginning.

I still stick to what i said, Tammy when he played under TT didn't even look that bad I saw movement off the ball and running in behind. He needed to work on his hold up play mostly but he was still scoring goals. I don't know what he looked like in training but I bet Tuchel would swap Rom for Tammy in a heartbeat if given the chance now.

I assume he only froze him out so he would be assured a new striker in the summer, he obviously had his flaws but rather than iron them out Tuchel wanted the finish product.

The board was tasked with finding a world class striker, perhaps Lukaku had the world fooled into believing he was one. Blame can be seen therefore from all sides, the board for signing him, Tuchel for agreeing to have him and Lukaku for coming when clearly he loves Inter more. 

Tuchel's fault that the Board decided to pay Lukaku £325K a week as well ... no doubt ... :-) 

19 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Fans place more blame on the board than Tuchel because they were willing to pay a £100m on a player which hasn't worked out. With that kind of expenditure you expect it to work, they should have done their do diligence. Tuchel gave them a criteria whilst he signed off on the deal he has consistently said he just wants to coach, so get him the players and he will handle the sporting side of things. 

You can berate the decision by Tuchel to allow the sale, yet you would assume the Chelsea scouts would have assured him that this was his man. This despite half the forum on here seeing what I and some others couldn't, that this deal was just doomed from the beginning.

I still stick to what i said, Tammy when he played under TT didn't even look that bad I saw movement off the ball and running in behind. He needed to work on his hold up play mostly but he was still scoring goals. I don't know what he looked like in training but I bet Tuchel would swap Rom for Tammy in a heartbeat if given the chance now.

I assume he only froze him out so he would be assured a new striker in the summer, he obviously had his flaws but rather than iron them out Tuchel wanted the finish product.

The board was tasked with finding a world class striker, perhaps Lukaku had the world fooled into believing he was one. Blame can be seen therefore from all sides, the board for signing him, Tuchel for agreeing to have him and Lukaku for coming when clearly he loves Inter more. 

Hang on..Tuchel banged on all summer about needing a No 9 after freezing out Tammy, an ageing Giroud was Milan bound, and he felt he needed to upgrade Havertz who was perfect for his style. Club made an offer for Halaand, but he wasn’t interested in playing for us. Now just like with the Kounde situation where Sevilla kept moving the post; the club moved on and decided to look inward for a solution in Chalobah, he could have worked with Havertz and used Broja as his backup. But no; he still kept insisting he needed a “9”. The club have now looked at Plan B who was Lukaku. If he didn’t want him: just like with Kounde he would have said he would look inwards for a solution, and the move would never have happed. He OKayed the transfer because he felt he just needed someone to finish our chances, without considering other aspects of his game. Sorry but the board is faultless regarding Lukaku. If they hadn’t signed him, he would have been stroppy. 

 

31 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Tuchel's fault that the Board decided to pay Lukaku £325K a week as well ... no doubt ... 🙂

Tuchel sanctioned the move, Marina did everything possible to make it happen and keep him happy. How fans can blame the board for his inability to get Lukaku firing is beyond me. He could have vetoed it and the move would never have happened. Is Lukaku an awful forward? No! He is just awful in the the system & style Tuchel wants to play. You don’t sign Lukaku and then decide to play slow, possession football, with 5 defenders and 2 mids with no creativity. He thrives in a direct style of football. That isn’t on the board. 

 

No doubt once he's left he'll moan about how our expectations of him were too high and how he was unfairly given few chances after his 7 touch masterclass.

Well Romelu if you want the type of workrate exception Eden Hazard got then you also have to produce to the level he did pal, can't have your cake and eat it.

54 minutes ago, Argo said:

 

No doubt once he's left he'll moan about how our expectations of him were too high and how he was unfairly given few chances after his 7 touch masterclass.

Well Romelu if you want the type of workrate exception Eden Hazard got then you also have to produce to the level he did pal, can't have your cake and eat it.

Yes he will probably say how the team let him down... No doubt Tuchel didn't know how to use him but this constant dodging of his own responsibility is just annoying.

Honestly, Conte gave him freedom but Lukaku was also much more in-shape and more aware of his overall fitness, he managed to keep his shape at the start of the season and he looked good in his first game which in itself could have been just a ripple effect of his work rate from Inter of the previous season! It became clear that he stopped working on his overall shape and then got injured so he's also not the same player, if anything the physical demands should have influenced him to work more on himself and not less!

When Pep came to Man City he wanted Aguero to work more off the ball and did Aguero complain? No he went to have on average a few km more covered per 90' and still had 20 league goals! That's the difference from one of the best strikers in PL history, and one diva that thinks that he should have everyone else working for him since he won 1 league title.

Now let's also consider that even when he came on a sub for us he missed a clear-cut chance, the ball hit him on the head basically it was a perfect cross but he put it wide. So he failed even when he was just supposed to finish an easy chance after coming from the bench, no pressing, no running... Just finishing, and he couldn't do it. I'm much more harsh when it comes to attackers but they are one most recognized and most valued players, if Lukaku really wanted to show his worth and his ability he should have fought for it, the diva reactions are not the way to make fans.

Edited May 5, 20224 yr by Gol15

Just now, Gol15 said:

Yes he will probably say how the team let him down... No doubt Tuchel didn't know how to use him but this constant dodging of his own responsibility is just annoying.

Honestly, Conte gave him freedom but Lukaku was also much more in-shape and more aware of his overall fitness, he managed to keep his shape at the start of the season and he looked good in his first game which in itself could have been just a ripple effect of his work rate from Inter of the previous season! It became clear that he stopped working on his overall shape and then got injured so he's also not the same player, if anything the physical demands should have influenced him to work more on himself and not less!

When Pep came to Man City he wanted Aguero to work more off the ball and did Aguero complain? No he went to have on average a few km more covered per 90' and still had 20 league goals! That's the difference from one of the best strikers in PL history, and one diva that thinks that he should have everyone else working for him since he won 1 league title.

Now let's also consider that even when he came on a sub for us he missed a clear-cut chance, the ball hit him on the head basically it was a perfect cross but he put it wide. So he failed even when he was just supposed to finish an easy chance after coming from the bench, no pressing, no running... Just finishing, and he couldn't do it.

Also what he doesn't realise is pressing doesn't just involve running around like a lunatic, simply positioning yourself properly is half the work.

We had many effective pressing games with Giroud up top.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Also what he doesn't realise is pressing doesn't just involve running around like a lunatic, simply positioning yourself properly is half the work.

We had many effective pressing games with Giroud up top.

In hindsight Tuchel shouldn't have let Giroud go, he could have promised him more minutes since Havertz can play behind him too.

For example Jorginho doesn't have the pace to run like Mount but he's one of our best pressing players simply due to his positioning. Lukaku just doesn't care. If he did he would have shown something but his mentality is all wrong.

14 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Yes he will probably say how the team let him down... No doubt Tuchel didn't know how to use him but this constant dodging of his own responsibility is just annoying.

Honestly, Conte gave him freedom but Lukaku was also much more in-shape and more aware of his overall fitness, he managed to keep his shape at the start of the season and he looked good in his first game which in itself could have been just a ripple effect of his work rate from Inter of the previous season! It became clear that he stopped working on his overall shape and then got injured so he's also not the same player, if anything the physical demands should have influenced him to work more on himself and not less!

When Pep came to Man City he wanted Aguero to work more off the ball and did Aguero complain? No he went to have on average a few km more covered per 90' and still had 20 league goals! That's the difference from one of the best strikers in PL history, and one diva that thinks that he should have everyone else working for him since he won 1 league title.

Now let's also consider that even when he came on a sub for us he missed a clear-cut chance, the ball hit him on the head basically it was a perfect cross but he put it wide. So he failed even when he was just supposed to finish an easy chance after coming from the bench, no pressing, no running... Just finishing, and he couldn't do it. I'm much more harsh when it comes to attackers but they are one most recognized and most valued players, if Lukaku really wanted to show his worth and his ability he should have fought for it, the diva reactions are not the way to make fans.

It can’t be overstated just how unprofessional Lukaku has been. His overall fitness, weight etc are his personal responsibility. We probably could have tweaked our play in the attacking third to get the best out of him. Ultimately though the infamous interview has done for him, leaving us with a 70 million headache that even Marina may struggle to fix.

Scored 2 goals today, whoop dee fecking do

Scored two goals and you could see it helped his confidence big time. He was fantastic after that. He had many good actions. Good layoff, good holdup. 

Don't really care about his goals today. Yes, it's not his fault that his brace was overshadowed today, but his good performance today does not overshadow the complete crap that we have to put up with for months.

And he was sh*te in the first half, let's not forget that.

Makes a change to not moan about him. His second goal showed, play it quicker to him and the success levels will rise.

Well played today Rom.

His 2nd goal was good, but I was still very frustrated with his performance. So many times when we had someone running into a crossing position, or into the box, instead of busting a gut to get towards the goal, he just hung back in a crowd of defenders pointing at his feet. Then was either too slow or too lazy to react when anything came back his way.

Awful in the first half, but cracking penalty under pressure (well done for having the balls, unlike Werner who shirks pens) and a great finish for the second, albeit gifted by Wolves.

Keep it going.... putting himself in the shop window.

Honestly surprised how often I heard the lukaku song today. Several times before his goals and, mote expectedly, after them.

Contrast that to every time Timo getting the ball and there was little anticipation coming through. The full Jesper Gronkjaer reaction.

Scores 2 goals and people still want to complain.

1 hour ago, mwblue10 said:

Scores 2 goals and people still want to complain.

One good game and this is starting already, lol.

Edited May 8, 20224 yr by Argo

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

One good game and this is starting already, lol.

And it wasn't even a good game from him, it was more like a good 5 minutes.

6 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

And it wasn't even a good game from him, it was more like a good 5 minutes.

It was the same with Torres aswell. Anytime he done the basics let alone score he apparently shut everyone up (while free/cheap signings like Eto'o and Sturridge were the ones being held to high standards).

He had a chance to net a brace when it truly mattered this time last month and look what happened. 

3 hours ago, Argo said:

One good game and this is starting already, lol.

 

3 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

And it wasn't even a good game from him, it was more like a good 5 minutes.

Last season, it was always “good performance, but no end product” with the team. Now it’s “yeah 2 goals, but still not a great performance.”

It was 2 goals FFS. Literally the aim of the game. Makes me wonder if opinions are based on football or if they’re made based on an interview that was given months ago. Would you prefer he doesn’t score and we lose?

Great goals - pressure penalty (thank goodness Jorginho was not on the pitch), and the 2nd goal was class.  Shows what an early pass can do to strikers that like to run onto the ball.