7 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Until another player does a better job than him, I'd rather we give him a Boehly special  7 years deal than sell him. We aren't good at selling players, so likely a huge lose if we sell him. Given his age and experience, he's likely to hit his prime.  We are doing 100M deal for players with 40 something games, imagine replacing a Havertz? Be like 150M, easy.

Same is true for both Havertz and Mount. Both shouldn't be starting for a legitimate PL and CL challenger. They should be great rotation options and get a good amount of minutes. And when they come into their prime, they have the talent to be world class in their positions. With the rebuild, I'm looking forward to seeing less of them, and that way enjoying them more. 

I get frustrated with Havertz along with everyone else but a lot of the criticism is a bit unfair. He's not a natural striker, he wasn't signed for that and it's not his natural position.

We actually need a straightforward, no nonsense, not totally up himself, centre forward that holds the line and just plays the position. Even if he doesn't score all the goals it would allow the likes of Havertz, Mount, Felix, Gallagher etc, to work off of him and wil, tap into their abilities far better.

Sadly we don't do that. That fella Man Utd just signed,  there is no way a club like us would do that.

5 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

He is one of the few match winners that we have in our squad.

He got us the 3 points yesterday, and he has done it a number of times, most famously of course in the final of the UCL.

He is not our biggest headache.

My issue is that I still don't know his best position. Not a winger. Not a CM. Not a striker. Has done well as a central atm, but we don't regularly play with one.

I thought he played better in the Fulham game alongside Felix, there were times they both looked to take up the same space but thats understandable as they had barely trained together. But he did look more confident, was showing for the ball more, coming for it etc.

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

I thought he played better in the Fulham game alongside Felix, there were times they both looked to take up the same space but thats understandable as they had barely trained together. But he did look more confident, was showing for the ball more, coming for it etc.

In general he is better in a two st system 

2 hours ago, venom2011 said:

Same is true for both Havertz and Mount. Both shouldn't be starting for a legitimate PL and CL challenger.

You know they won the Champions League, right?

I have a theory about Kai, give him 3 clear cut chances per game and he will probably score. He's not a striker though, he's a number 10 anyone can see it, he just doesn't get long enough periods where he's played there in a set formation it's why false 9 is the closest thing to him playing "effectively". 

Let's be honest though not many of our players get clear cut chances per game, this dropped off heavily under Potter. Whereas under TT we couldn't score despite making chances now we don't make as many chances per game. 

I'm not blaming coaching necessarily on this one, the players from the moment it fell apart for Lamps forgot how to create chances and score consistently. Sarri had them doing it near to the end of his tenure and Lamps for a good period with his kamikaze style.

Having a squad clear out will be very telling, if the same problems exist it will be difficult to blame it on anyone else other than the coach. If they don't clearly a subset of players are at fault for their lack of creativity/ability to exercute passes, urgency on the ball and ability to identify key moments (footballing IQ).

Havertz criticism is not unfair. He's awful whatever position he plays. He may have got the match winner vs Palace but he's a prime reason why we lose many more matches through his anonymity.

Argument is a bit tedious. We have all seen him play as a CAM, ST, Second ST, CF, and at RW numerous times and he has looked consistently poor. 

Based on my assessment, his absolute best comes as a Second ST when and only when he has space to work with. It's one of the reasons why he does better when Mount or Gallagher aren't on the pitch occupying the space he likes to drift in. 

 

He's apparently scored 19 goals in his last 29 at Stamford Bridge (according to the Chelsea app commentator).

47 minutes ago, Argo said:

He's apparently scored 19 goals in his last 29 at Stamford Bridge (according to the Chelsea app commentator).

I make it 15 in 32 from what I can see but wiki says he's scored 29 in total, so my numbers are wrong somehow. 

Either way, he does score goals if he plays at home.

Edited January 16, 20233 yr by bisright1

9 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

I get frustrated with Havertz along with everyone else but a lot of the criticism is a bit unfair. He's not a natural striker, he wasn't signed for that and it's not his natural position.

We actually need a straightforward, no nonsense, not totally up himself, centre forward that holds the line and just plays the position. Even if he doesn't score all the goals it would allow the likes of Havertz, Mount, Felix, Gallagher etc, to work off of him and wil, tap into their abilities far better.

Sadly we don't do that. That fella Man Utd just signed,  there is no way a club like us would do that.

Honestly he's probably played more games at striker for us and Germany than he has as a number 10 by now so I would expect him to at the very least not look useless for the majority of the game in that role. 

Not clinical enough to play as the ST, not creative enough to play as a 10, not got the work rate to play as an 8.

Second striker seems the best option but we don't play two up top. Even if we did Felix is better this season and Nkunku most likely will be better again next season if that deal is still agreed. 

 

I say we take the deal. He’ll probably do better at Bayern but I doubt he’ll ever come good for us.

31 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

 

Hopefully, I just don't think it'll ever work out for him here, a move to a Bayern makes sense for everyone 

Would be a shame to see him go, there is obviously a player in there but consistency is the biggest issue with him. One good game, and then goes missing for 2 or 3 games. He's been here almost 3 years now and I'm still not 100% sure what his best position is. Obviously with the attacking players coming in some will have to leave but to be honest personally I would prefer us to try and move on Pulisic, Ziyech, CHO before moving on Havertz. 

I read a while back he was really close with Werner and Rudiger. Both of them leaving at the same time probably wasn't ideal for him. 

Kai strikes me as the type of player who's unlikely to ever really put the team on his back and be the standout performer when others are struggling, but who could be ruthlessly efficient in the right team with the right talent around him.

Bayern could well be that side for him honestly. Its maybe a lazy comparison but he has something of Thomas Muller about him. Doesn't really have a defined position but in an elite team does very well. This is obviously conjecture but I can't imagine Muller would have done all that well had he left Bayern for a PL side.

I'd be interested to see what would become of Kai if he stays and builds some chemistry with all these new signings, but I do think Bayern would be a better fit for him.

1 hour ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

 

Not surprised as he is the ideal heir to Muller. Agree with everyone else & would accept an offer without second thoughts.

1 hour ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Would be a shame to see him go, there is obviously a player in there but consistency is the biggest issue with him. One good game, and then goes missing for 2 or 3 games. He's been here almost 3 years now and I'm still not 100% sure what his best position is. Obviously with the attacking players coming in some will have to leave but to be honest personally I would prefer us to try and move on Pulisic, Ziyech, CHO before moving on Havertz. 

I read a while back he was really close with Werner and Rudiger. Both of them leaving at the same time probably wasn't ideal for him. 

I agree, its annoying as he obviously has everything going to be a top quality player but just doesnt impact games enough, or seem to have the drive to. 

There is a talented boy in there somewhere and we do see glimpses of it.

But like others I think his motivation or drive is questionable, seems happy to get a winning goal then dine out on it for the next few matches.

All the more strange whenever he scores and cups his ears to the fans, I think to myself yes, now he’s got that fire in his belly, but it never really materialises.

Should be getting around 15 goals per season but lacks that bit of hunger IMO.

Edited January 20, 20233 yr by 2211

I know it's not wise to get emotional when it comes to the market, but honestly I'd say f**k OFF Bayern after that De Ligt saga and would be happy to sell Havertz to any other team (hello, Madrid) if it comes to it. Not sure if there'd be any other interest though, but I hate how they keep vulturing any talented german players as if its their destiny to play for them, one of the reasons I really came to admire Kroos for sticking a finger up to them. 

As a few others said though, would rather we take another look at him alongside the new players as he's the only one of that bunch who I feel can improve with a more dynamic attack, especially if the fee is on the low side of that 35m.

I don't dislike him yet agree with others that in some matches he does not seem up for it.

I would take a decent offer and let him go yet we need to make sure we have another option to play C/F or else we are just cresting another problem.

 

3 hours ago, cfr95 said:

Kai strikes me as the type of player who's unlikely to ever really put the team on his back and be the standout performer when others are struggling, but who could be ruthlessly efficient in the right team with the right talent around him.

Bayern could well be that side for him honestly. Its maybe a lazy comparison but he has something of Thomas Muller about him. Doesn't really have a defined position but in an elite team does very well. This is obviously conjecture but I can't imagine Muller would have done all that well had he left Bayern for a PL side.

I'd be interested to see what would become of Kai if he stays and builds some chemistry with all these new signings, but I do think Bayern would be a better fit for him.

I agree. I think he's the kind of player that would play well in a team that already has a system and playing philosophy. In an alternate universe where Havertz joined us in some of our title winning teams, he probably would have flourished. Unfortunately, we are a club still trying to find our identity and philosophy so I don't think he will ever work out at the moment. Right now we need players who aren't afraid to grab a game by its horns and Havertz just isn't that player. At Bayern, where everything is already set up, he will probably end up becoming the player we all wanted/expected him to be. 

14 hours ago, ducavis said:

Not surprised as he is the ideal heir to Muller. Agree with everyone else & would accept an offer without second thoughts.

We need to sell as our numbers are growing too much. That being said though the likes of Pulisic and Ziyech are the bargin basement sales, not Kai. He is a star for the German side and still young enough. Would not be accepting less than 60mill myself. Whereas I would be grateful for 10mill for each of CP and Ziyech.

Personally I don't want him to go - not yet anyway.

I'm a team that "clicks" I think he can be a real asset. In his time here, he has never really been in a team that regularly gels. Probably being overly optimistic, but really want him to succeed. We should also bring back timo. 😂