Official Thomas Tuchel *Now Sacked*

[Jezz]

6 hours ago, chi blue said:

The most under whelming appointment I can remember for many a year, but let’s see how he goes. UTC

In the Abramovich era, Sarri was the most underwhelming for mine.

Felt like we settled for second best after having Conte beforehand.

[Valerie]

1 hour ago, evissy said:

Consistency is key to everyone who is succeeding. The problem with it is you have to be consistently pretty damn good. So first we need to be good. 😃

Apparently being consistently bad is frowned upon... 

[Gol15]

Imagine if he's actually better than Klopp, I saw somewhere that Mr.T made Mainz better than Klopp.

The PL right now has a lot of great managers, I'm hoping that our new guy has an ace up in his sleeve, it would be great to win against Spurs and Man United!

[dansubrosa]

I suppose Tuchel did a great job developing Dembele before the 100m move to Barcelona.

We’ll see if he can do that with Hudson Odoi too.

[Imran_CFC]

9 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Imagine if he's actually better than Klopp, I saw somewhere that Mr.T made Mainz better than Klopp.

The PL right now has a lot of great managers, I'm hoping that our new guy has an ace up in his sleeve, it would be great to win against Spurs and Man United!

He certainly has a better squad then Klopp had at Liverpool

[evissy]

3 at the back...? 

 

[manpe]

14 minutes ago, Jezz said:

In the Abramovich era, Sarri was the most underwhelming for mine.

Felt like we settled for second best after having Conte beforehand.

Sarri, who came off back exciting seasons with Napoli and had a playing style so distinguishable it was named after him? We wanted to become an attacking team after enduring Mou's and Conte's cowardly sh*tshows towards the end of their tenures, and got who was at the time regarded as one of the best attacking coaches in the world. I personally was excited.

Now Avram Grant is another story... From The Special One to a complete unknown... now THAT was underwhelming.

[Gol15]

4 minutes ago, evissy said:

3 at the back...? 

 

I think it's a must if Rudiger is going to start the game...

I find it odd but in all fairness Pulisic has been in a bad form so dropping him this game might be a good decision, here's from the same thread I think:

[JM7]

18 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I think it's a must if Rudiger is going to start the game...

I find it odd but in all fairness Pulisic has been in a bad form so dropping him this game might be a good decision, here's from the same thread I think:

I think that probably feels like the best team and uses the strengths of Havertz and Werner. Unfortunately means that there might be limited minutes for CHO, Pulisic and Ziyech. 

[bisright1]

7 minutes ago, JM7 said:

I think that probably feels like the best team and uses the strengths of Havertz and Werner. Unfortunately means that there might be limited minutes for CHO, Pulisic and Ziyech. 

My understanding is Tuchel isn't the type to be fully wedded to a formation. I doubt very much the formation we see tonight will be the formation we see week in week out. 

Also, if it is 3 at the back could also mean 

Azpi - Silva - Zouma
James - Kante - Mount - Chilwell
Ziyech - Werner - Pulisic

[Osgoodwasgood]

I suppose i had better stop sulking and get behind the new man

Just for the record i was disgusted with the way Frank was used by a club that he served so well as a player, but i learned a long time ago that this club along with many other top flight clubs sold its soul, in our case to a load of Russians that know little about Morals and Sentiment.

To the younger supporters on this forum that have known nothing other than the Abramovic era, we might sound like whinging old farts, but you were unfortunate to have missed the pre Abramovic years, when this was a proper club with an identity and Balls, the way the club conducts its business these days just is'nt the Chelsea Way, Its shameful and embarrassing for us "old farts".

However, its not Thomas Tuchel's fault and im Chelsea till im pushing them up despite everything, so i would like to wish him the very best of luck#carefree

[Munkunku]

4 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

I suppose i had better stop sulking and get behind the new man

Just for the record i was disgusted with the way Frank was used by a club that he served so well as a player, but i learned a long time ago that this club along with many other top flight clubs sold its soul, in our case to a load of Russians that know little about Morals and Sentiment.

To the younger supporters on this forum that have known nothing other than the Abramovic era, we might sound like whinging old farts, but you were unfortunate to have missed the pre Abramovic years, when this was a proper club with an identity and Balls, the way the club conducts its business these days just is'nt the Chelsea Way, Its shameful and embarrassing for us "old farts".

However, its not Thomas Tuchel's fault and im Chelsea till im pushing them up despite everything, so i would like to wish him the very best of luck#carefree

[bisright1]

21 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

I suppose i had better stop sulking and get behind the new man

Just for the record i was disgusted with the way Frank was used by a club that he served so well as a player, but i learned a long time ago that this club along with many other top flight clubs sold its soul, in our case to a load of Russians that know little about Morals and Sentiment.

To the younger supporters on this forum that have known nothing other than the Abramovic era, we might sound like whinging old farts, but you were unfortunate to have missed the pre Abramovic years, when this was a proper club with an identity and Balls, the way the club conducts its business these days just is'nt the Chelsea Way, Its shameful and embarrassing for us "old farts".

However, its not Thomas Tuchel's fault and im Chelsea till im pushing them up despite everything, so i would like to wish him the very best of luck#carefree

Pre Roman the Chelsea way was the board running out of money because they couldn't manage the club properly. 

Pre Roman, Ken Bates sacked Ruud when we were challenging for the title. He sacked Vialli 5 games into the league season after winning the FA Cup. We then ran out of money and had to be bailed out by Roman otherwise we'd have spent the next 15 years in the lower leagues.

I have supported Chelsea since the early 90s. Roman treats managers better than Ken Bates and he runs the club better too. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2000/sep/12/newsstory.sport6 - tell me how this story is any different to the Lampard one except the fact that Vialli won the FA Cup and this is written in SEPTEMBER

I don't know what it was like in the 80s, but if I remember my history books Ken Bates bought us for a quid when it looked like we might fold. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by bisright1

[Osgoodwasgood]

15 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Pre Roman the Chelsea way was the board running out of money because they couldn't manage the club properly. 

Pre Roman, Ken Bates sacked Ruud when we were challenging for the title. He sacked Vialli 5 games into the league season after winning the FA Cup. We then ran out of money and had to be bailed out by Roman otherwise we'd have spent the next 15 years in the lower leagues.

I have supported Chelsea since the early 90s. Roman treats managers better than Ken Bates and he runs the club better too. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2000/sep/12/newsstory.sport6 - tell me how this story is any different to the Lampard one except the fact that Vialli won the FA Cup and this is written in SEPTEMBER

I don't know what it was like in the 80s, but if I remember my history books Ken Bates bought us for a quid when it looked like we might fold. 

Its not really for this thread bisright1, but Ken Bates may have had his faults, but if it was'nt for him we would'nt be at Stamford Bridge now. He saved the club from potentially sharing with Crystal palace, or even worse ceasing to exist.

[bisright1]

25 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Its not really for this thread bisright1, but Ken Bates may have had his faults, but if it was'nt for him we would'nt be at Stamford Bridge now. He saved the club from potentially sharing with Crystal palace, or even worse ceasing to exist.

Yes Bates had his faults. They are broadly the same faults as Roman has. The reason he was able to save our club is because the previous owners had run us into the ground. And then he nearly did the same with us until we were saved by Roman.

I am not going to let you wax lyrically about the past, moaning about our current owners, when this is the most stable our football club has ever been run. When the previous owner bought us for a quid because we were going out of business and sold us for £30m when we were 100s of millions in debt and staring down a future similar to Leeds. 

You also can't criticise how this board treats managers and pretend Bates wasn't just as bad, if not worse. Vialli and Ruud were not given any time or respect by Bates and both of them actually won trophies for us.

[Nevamind]

Very interesting video on how Tuchel works and his ideas. Although it is in german the youtube subtitles should suffice. Otherwise i could clear things up.
This video was made in his 4th Mainz season i think and the titel reads "Breaking out of the routine."

Some major points:
At the beginning he talks about his background (no senior coaching experience and wasn´t a player either), his rules and how the situation was at the time at Mainz.
Until 7:10 he is talking about how he tried to form a team/teamspirit from the beginning with a simple example of how the team should have a meal together.

Until 11:50 changing the routine way in Bundesliga. Explains how his formation changes according to the opponent. He wasn´t fond of the idea that you have to play one system over and over again and only then you can start to change things.

Until 17:00 how he changed the behaivour of the players on the field. Tuchel said when he came they always wanted to pass to the sideline and make a save pass forward coming through the wings.
He didn´t like this at all. As you heard he only allowed the players to pass to certain zones on the pitch. Like playing in X-shape field so you had to pass to the middle first. Or a very narrow field or wide, circle shape you name it. He NEVER trained on the normal shaped football pitch in his times at Mainz. He also says he doesn´t want to micro manage too far into the players game but he gives them a system to play in it.

Until 22:00 other remarks about his work. Then goes on to say the players were too reliant on the system and coaching stuff and therefor the players weren´t doing enough in the matches because the trusted the system too much. Not intentionally but more subconsiously because it worked so well in the last 2-3seasons.

Until 25:30 Explains in more deepth how he wants the players/coaches to interact with each other, this is an active process from everybody and everybody should have a good mood starting with the Coach. Letting the players write down repeatedly how they feel physically and also psychologically in a book. Banning of Cell phones in the cabin and during training (players themself encouraged that, initiated from Tuchel.

Until 27:30 anecdotes from coaches outside of the team (who where there at the time because of making badges etc...) and how they saw his team. (interesting).

Until 31:50 adapting and looking up to the best on how they do it. Preparation/nurishment/talent and hard work/being one unified group.

Until end: more anecdotes, fighting against adversary, Team talk struggles. etc.   Tired of writing towards the end, but you guys can ask if you need things to clear up. haha. (sry for spelling mistakes but it should suffice.)

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Nevamind

[JM7]

1 hour ago, manpe said:

Sarri, who came off back exciting seasons with Napoli and had a playing style so distinguishable it was named after him? We wanted to become an attacking team after enduring Mou's and Conte's cowardly sh*tshows towards the end of their tenures, and got who was at the time regarded as one of the best attacking coaches in the world. I personally was excited.

Now Avram Grant is another story... From The Special One to a complete unknown... now THAT was underwhelming.

Yeah Sarri was a huge disappointment on the whole but then again, I don’t think he was really given the time to implement anything. I think he understood he needed to win so developing a certain style will always take second place. 
 

I thought Conte’s first season was incredible. He really got the team going. It’s such a shame that he was a bad politician because he was an excellent coach. In Conte, I thought we may have found someone who could stay with us for 3-4 years. 

[Slojo]

2 hours ago, manpe said:

Sarri, who came off back exciting seasons with Napoli and had a playing style so distinguishable it was named after him? We wanted to become an attacking team after enduring Mou's and Conte's cowardly sh*tshows towards the end of their tenures, and got who was at the time regarded as one of the best attacking coaches in the world. I personally was excited.

Now Avram Grant is another story... From The Special One to a complete unknown... now THAT was underwhelming.

I never rated Sarri at all. I actually thought he was very lazy and unoriginal, when he came here he just pretty much tried to make Chelsea Napoli 2.0. All his transfer targets were purely bringing in Napoli players, that to me just seemed so one dimensional. 

Every manager has got a style, but they have to improvise and adapt, you expect that. You know Pep can't build Barcelona 2.0 at City, he knows he has to experiment in certain areas. 

[Osgoodwasgood]

28 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Yes Bates had his faults. They are broadly the same faults as Roman has. The reason he was able to save our club is because the previous owners had run us into the ground. And then he nearly did the same with us until we were saved by Roman.

I am not going to let you wax lyrically about the past, moaning about our current owners, when this is the most stable our football club has ever been run. When the previous owner bought us for a quid because we were going out of business and sold us for £30m when we were 100s of millions in debt and staring down a future similar to Leeds. 

You also can't criticise how this board treats managers and pretend Bates wasn't just as bad, if not worse. Vialli and Ruud were not given any time or respect by Bates and both of them actually won trophies for us.

Read the History, Chelsea would'nt exist, they wanted to develop the current site into houses had Bates not stood in their way. Im not saying he did'nt do well out of it eventually, had it not been for the untimely death of Matthew Harding there would be no Abramovic. Puppet that he is.

[Backbiter]

9 minutes ago, Nevamind said:

Very interesting video on how Tuchel works and his ideas. Although it is in german the youtube subtitles should suffice. Otherwise i could clear things up.

At the beginning he talks about his background (no senior coaching experience and wasn´t a player either), his rules and how the situation was at the time at Mainz.
Until 7:10 he is talking about how he tried to form a team/teamspirit from the beginning with a simple example of how the team should have a meal together.

 

 

Thanks for posting. I can speak German so I'll enjoy that. I'm a bit rusty as I've not been there during covid, of course.

One thing that occurred to me the other day, when listening to Darren Gough of all people on Talksh!te talking about how hard things are for everyone in these covid times, was how team spirit and morale at the club will have been adversely affected by all the restrictions (no different to other clubs, of course). Players are unable to have proper nights out or any social activities, which are so important both to their wellbeing and to team bonding. This will only have hindered the integration of players like Werner and Havertz, and when you chuck in Havertz' illness, you can imagine how tough things have been for him, uprooting himself from Germany to come here, with massive pressure and expectations and then not just struggling for form but finding himself out of the starting XI.

Lamps' job was always going to be incredibly challenging, but having to cope with that unprecedented aspect of management can only have added to the stresses of being the boss at Chelsea. I'm sure Tuchel stating the importance of meals out to team spirit will not get Lamps thinking "Now why didn't I think of that?" But I bet he is aware that players not being able to socialise freely will have done nothing to build team spirit this season.

[Backbiter]

5 minutes ago, Osgoodwasgood said:

Read the History, Chelsea would'nt exist, they wanted to develop the current site into houses had Bates not stood in their way. Im not saying he did'nt do well out of it eventually, had it not been for the untimely death of Matthew Harding there would be no Abramovic. Puppet that he is.

These Russian oligarchs with their phenomenal wealth would still have been looking to invest in football clubs, and Harding's wealth was a fraction of RA's. I get your point that the club might not have been in such debt and looking for a buyer if MH had lived, but RA might still have made Bates/ Harding an offer they couldn't refuse.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Backbiter

[M.M.B]

39 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Yes Bates had his faults. They are broadly the same faults as Roman has. The reason he was able to save our club is because the previous owners had run us into the ground. And then he nearly did the same with us until we were saved by Roman.

I am not going to let you wax lyrically about the past, moaning about our current owners, when this is the most stable our football club has ever been run. When the previous owner bought us for a quid because we were going out of business and sold us for £30m when we were 100s of millions in debt and staring down a future similar to Leeds. 

You also can't criticise how this board treats managers and pretend Bates wasn't just as bad, if not worse. Vialli and Ruud were not given any time or respect by Bates and both of them actually won trophies for us.

Gullit was a lazy f#cker when he was the coach. He was more interested in his modeling career than coaching the team. That's why Bates sent him down the road.

He was just as crap at newcastle.

[coco]

His first 5 games are pretty favourable. A defeat to Spuds would hurt, but not in the bigger 18mnth scheme, 10pts from 15 would just about do.

The following 5 are going to be a lot tougher, we might struggle to get 8pts from 15.

Anything over 21 points in the next 10 games would be a great start.

 

[manpe]

24 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I never rated Sarri at all. I actually thought he was very lazy and unoriginal, when he came here he just pretty much tried to make Chelsea Napoli 2.0. All his transfer targets were purely bringing in Napoli players, that to me just seemed so one dimensional. 

Every manager has got a style, but they have to improvise and adapt, you expect that. You know Pep can't build Barcelona 2.0 at City, he knows he has to experiment in certain areas. 

Sure, Sarri ended up being a disappointment, but at first it was exciting because of how Napoli had been playing under him. Fast, direct, exciting football. I was just saying that no way was he a more underwhelming appointment than Grant in Abramovich's era, but to each their own.

[Nevamind]

4 minutes ago, Backbiter said:

Lamps' job was always going to be incredibly challenging, but having to cope with that unprecedented aspect of management can only have added to the stresses of being the boss at Chelsea. I'm sure Tuchel stating the importance of meals out to team spirit will not get Lamps thinking "Now why didn't I think of that?" But I bet he is aware that players not being able to socialise freely will have done nothing to build team spirit this season.

I think you are spot on with this. Like in any other field,  experience is key and it starts with those little things. What meals to eat, how to approach a large group and cope with them, how to handle certain situations. With Chelsea you don´t get the time to figure it out by yourself so you need experience to help you through dark times and sadly Frank didn´t have that.