With the missed chance against RM you can clearly see his confidence in front of goal is shattered. Werner likes to lace a ball to score and placement would not be a strong point. Putting your foot through it is fine when you’re on form but you’re more likely to sky it, miss hit or hit the keeper. He is definitely going the safer option now on trying to make sure he hits the target and keeper has to save. Unfortunately his shots have become weak. What to do to cure, I don’t know but I think he should just go with what comes naturally and blast it and hope his luck changes. 

Are we not going to offer Courtois just a tad of credit for the save though and cut Timo a little slack for that one?

No…. Okay carry on 

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

The rags are saying footage in the tunnel from the Real game showed Giroud and Tibo discussing Werners miss. I wonder what they were saying?

Apparently Courtois says i just stuck a lucky leg out

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

The rags are saying footage in the tunnel from the Real game showed Giroud and Tibo discussing Werners miss. I wonder what they were saying?

If the hacks from the gutter press see footage of us nattering, I wonder what they’ll say we're saying?

2 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

Apparently Courtois says i just stuck a lucky lanky leg out

 

Maybe something; maybe nothing

 

If you're wondering why Tuchel is giving him "so many chances" then this is why.

WITH WERNER IN STARTING XI
W 2-0 Burnley 
W 1-0 Spurs 
W 2-1 Sheffield United 
W 2-0 Newcastle 
D 1-1 Saints 
W 1-0 Liverpool 
W 2-0 Everton 
L 2-5 West Brom 
W 1-0 West Ham 
W 1-0 Man City
W 1-0 Atletico 
W 2-0 Atletico 
W 2-0 Porto 
D 1-1 Real Madrid 

WITHOUT WERNER IN STARTING XI
D 0-0 Wolves 
D 0-0 Man United 
D 0-0 Leeds 
W 1-4 Crystal Palace 
D 0-0 Brighton
W 1-0 Barnsley 
W 2-0 Sheffield United 
L 0-1 Porto 

12 minutes ago, Argo said:

If you're wondering why Tuchel is giving him "so many chances" then this is why.

WITH WERNER IN STARTING XI
W 2-0 Burnley 
W 1-0 Spurs 
W 2-1 Sheffield United 
W 2-0 Newcastle 
D 1-1 Saints 
W 1-0 Liverpool 
W 2-0 Everton 
L 2-5 West Brom 
W 1-0 West Ham 
W 1-0 Man City
W 1-0 Atletico 
W 2-0 Atletico 
W 2-0 Porto 
D 1-1 Real Madrid 

WITHOUT WERNER IN STARTING XI
D 0-0 Wolves 
D 0-0 Man United 
D 0-0 Leeds 
W 1-4 Crystal Palace 
D 0-0 Brighton
W 1-0 Barnsley 
W 2-0 Sheffield United 
L 0-1 Porto 

Says a lot tbh, he is important to the style of football we play. If you look at those wins more often than not he was involved in a goal scored (including penalties won).

I've said many times I'll back him but it doesn't mean he doesn't frustrate me. If anything I think it's the fans that believe in him the most that feel let down when he misses, because it just adds more fuel to the fire for his naysayers.

He has the ability and I would argue whilst his assist numbers appear to be at his usual level it feels like he has added a new dimension to his game in which he can just pace through the defense and lay it on a plate. This IMO is his biggest weapon because who cares if he's not scoring goals if he is assisting in the biggest games of our season?

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by LongtimerLurker

I personally think he should have some 1-1s with some iconic German goalscoring gods like Klinsman or Klose, and those who think he is small, 5'10 is a good Strikers height, Klose was 1.82, Shearer 1.83, etc

If i was a defender i would much rather defend against a conventional CF like Giroud, than a player like Werner, against Giroud its about having the upper body strength to take him on, he's not very mobile so you can always stay close to him. Werner different kettle altogether, he's never still, always on the move, and never in the same place. Varane couldnt cope with him, watch our goal, did you notice they had two players on the goal line when Pulisic scored ? it was Werner's run that Varane followed that left a huge space for Pulisc to round Courtois into and score.

In 14 games with him Tuchel lost only once and in 8 games without him we lost to Porto in the last second of the game, in those 14 games with him we scored 21 goals and in the 8 games without him we scored 7 goals so it's a clear suggestion that we simply must rely on Werner's runs and workrate even if he does waste a few chances because overall he brings more positives than negatives though against Wolves for example it was Tuchel's first game and despite knowing Werner he didn't play him and focused to not lose so there are some other factors there. 

Anyway we are a tough team to crack, in the 8 games without Werner we conceded 2 goals only so we have now seen that we can get a good result, for example even without Kovacic which many thought would be basically irreplaceable...

Werner is the player that we simply rely on in the current system as he's always working hard and looking to push our attack and press and even when he isn't playing we would still need a player that could do a similar shift in those terms, much energy and always looking towards the goal, in similar fashion Kante has been playing with endless amounts of energy now that we can't play Kovacic and even if he does miss some passes it's still his effort that pushes our attack till the final third much like Kovacic used to carry the ball for us forward.

With all that said, while Werner has been involved in a lot of our goals in one way or another it's no secret that he has been incredibly wasteful and those little details can mean a CL final/CL title or getting kicked out, if the two teams are so similar it's really important to be clinical and whoever misses their chances might just lose. I still remember how under Conte we were defending against Man City, De Bruyne hits the bar from point blank range, we get a counter and Hazard scores so it's all in the details.

Werner simply must improve his decision making and finishing because his consistency is going to matter in the long run and that's the difference from a good player and a great player. If we create more chances he would score more so maybe we need a player to complement him just like Drogba had Anelka or Guðjohnsen Jimmy Floyd, I was hoping that Havertz would be able to take a lot of attention which would make Werner's life easier but in recent times they don't play at the same time.

On 28/04/2021 at 00:42, Frankie8Lampard said:

His problem is that his feet moves quicker than his mind. That might have worked last season but it isn’t this season. He needs to take his time and think a bit before shooting, that would honestly solve a lot of the chances he has missed.

Is that another way of saying he’s a bit thick ? 

6 hours ago, Bob stark said:

So if psg call Tuchel and say you can take neymar/mbappe for werner, Tuchel will say no? 

 

I have no doubt he (and practically every sensible manager) will say no to Neymar.

On 28/04/2021 at 00:42, Frankie8Lampard said:

His problem is that his feet moves quicker than his mind. That might have worked last season but it isn’t this season. He needs to take his time and think a bit before shooting, that would honestly solve a lot of the chances he has missed.

Weird that Ally McCoist a known prolific striker, thinks he's being to hesitant, and overthinking it, he's scored goals all his life, so muscle memory dictates just use his natural instincts, in real time those chances are so fast, Accuracyand placement plus  luck and judgement play a huge part..

2 hours ago, Argo said:

If you're wondering why Tuchel is giving him "so many chances" then this is why.

WITH WERNER IN STARTING XI
W 2-0 Burnley 
W 1-0 Spurs 
W 2-1 Sheffield United 
W 2-0 Newcastle 
D 1-1 Saints 
W 1-0 Liverpool 
W 2-0 Everton 
L 2-5 West Brom 
W 1-0 West Ham 
W 1-0 Man City
W 1-0 Atletico 
W 2-0 Atletico 
W 2-0 Porto 
D 1-1 Real Madrid 

WITHOUT WERNER IN STARTING XI
D 0-0 Wolves 
D 0-0 Man United 
D 0-0 Leeds 
W 1-4 Crystal Palace 
D 0-0 Brighton
W 1-0 Barnsley 
W 2-0 Sheffield United 
L 0-1 Porto 

Werner is so so frustrating but I take him over our current alternatives - give Giroud a nailed on chance in and around the 6 yard box and he’ll likely score or be on target at least, but like Tammy, who would most likely get his feet mixed up and be on the floor before the ball gets to him, he will never make goals for himself or anyone else, he’s too slow these days and neither Oli or TA gamble or anticipate enough for me.

I can’t see opposition defensive units looking at a team sheet with either Oli or TA starting with any great trepidation like Senderos must of when he knew Drogba was picked - Werner worries the b’jesus out of opponents defensive midfielders, central defenders, managers and, unfortunately, Chelsea fans , but he has to start against Madrid - imo.

Edited April 29, 20215 yr by Paddy

On 28/04/2021 at 16:18, Bob stark said:

Tammy scored 15 goals last season in PL

And his goals and assists contributed to just 1 point in the PL this season. He did well last season. He has done poorly this season.

On 28/04/2021 at 10:11, EdinburghBlue said:

Really? You think Abraham would still be in the team if he’d scored 3 goals in 25 or so games? The answer is no, not a chance. He can’t even get in the team when he’s the top scorer after not playing for half the season. The goalposts are massively skewed even by fans for expensive signings purely to justify their selection.

Top scorer whose goals (and assists) have won us a solitary point in the EPL this season.

In the Premier League:

The above expressed as "Per 90 minutes" :

 

And in the Champions League:

 

Giroud is a bit skewed of course by his amazing 4-goal game against Sevilla

Champions League Per 90

I genuinely don't understand those who continually say that Werner should be dropped for Tammy.

1) Werners goals and assists have won us significantly more points that Tammy this season. Tammy despite racking up almost 900 mins prior to Tuchel arriving, his goals/assists only won us a single, solitary point

2) Timo creates chances for others regularly

3) Timos pace scares defenders

4) Timo works his socks off.

It is interesting  to see that Timo has a higher shot accuracy % than Tammy - That is surprising, and I wouldn't have guessed that, as for me, Tammy "feels" like the better finisher. However, importantly, finishing, is the the only thing Tammy is better at. Actually, on reconsideration, Tammy probably also has a better first touch.

Its all moot though, as it looks like Tommy Tickle doesn't fancy Tammy - and frankly, on his performances this season and the astonishingly low number of points his goals or assists win us, he is probably fully justified.

 

 

I have no problem with Tammy as a finisher. He has the natural strikers knack of often being in the right place at the right time. And his touch is inarguably better than Werners IMO.

My problem is his hold up play. It is usually rubbish. And for a system that plays a lone striker he will need to get a lot better at it to hold down a spot. He is a tall lad. I always feel he could carry another 10-12lbs on that frame and that might make all the difference for him.

1 hour ago, nonotnowjim said:

And his goals and assists contributed to just 1 point in the PL this season. He did well last season. He has done poorly this season.

I understand some of the other points you are making but your emphasis on the 1 point contribution from Tammy is hugely subjective, my guess is that the 1 point you are referring to is the West Brom game. 

In addition to that he scored 2 against West Ham in a 3-0 win, he scored 1 against Newcastle in a 2-0 win and also scored the equalising goal against Sheffield. Football is not as simple as had he not scored we would've still won because the final scoreline was comfortable, anyone who watched that West Ham game would know that we were getting dominated until Tammy scored the 2nd goal which burst West Hams bubble and even against Newcastle we were starting to drop deeper and deeper and could've conceded late as Liverpool found out recently. 

I understand you are not a fan of Tammy and you have the right to your opinion but to downplay his contributions by stating his goals and assists have only Contributed to a solitary point is just misleading. 

1 hour ago, just said:

I have no problem with Tammy as a finisher. He has the natural strikers knack of often being in the right place at the right time. And his touch is inarguably better than Werners IMO.

My problem is his hold up play. It is usually rubbish. And for a system that plays a lone striker he will need to get a lot better at it to hold down a spot. He is a tall lad. I always feel he could carry another 10-12lbs on that frame and that might make all the difference for him.

Absolutely there lots of aspect to be critical with Tammy's game especially his link up/hold up play even his touch. 

 

4 hours ago, ashwin said:

I have no doubt he (and practically every sensible manager) will say no to Neymar.

Without the finance, all of them will say yes to neymar. 

What's telling with Tammy is the same main argument for him is similar to the one that was used to make a case for Tomori.

When the (paraphrasing) "yeah but the other player isn't exactly ruling the world either" line is rolled out that in itself is a tell tale sign and in this case it's misguided as Timo is usually deployed in a different position.

2 hours ago, just said:

I have no problem with Tammy as a finisher. He has the natural strikers knack of often being in the right place at the right time. And his touch is inarguably better than Werners IMO.

My problem is his hold up play. It is usually rubbish. And for a system that plays a lone striker he will need to get a lot better at it to hold down a spot. He is a tall lad. I always feel he could carry another 10-12lbs on that frame and that might make all the difference for him.

 

Strangely, for such a tall lad, he's never able to win a header.