I cannot see time fixing the big, glarring problem of a slow Jorghino in front of this mainly slow back four. I see us leaking goals galore. However, I can see this back four being ripped up by this time next year.

We can't have both Kante and Jorghino in from of the back four as that will leave us short going forward. But I don't think Kante is quite good enough technically to be playing further up, so how about the technically superior Jorghino swapping positions with Kante? Jorghino's lack of pace would not hurt the team if he was further up.

Edited August 21, 20187 yr by Dixon

3 minutes ago, Dixon said:

I cannot see time fixing the big, glarring problem of a slow Jorghino in front of this mainly slow back four. I see us leaking goals galore. However, I can see this back four being ripped up by this time next year.

We can't have both Kante and Jorghino in from of the back four as that will leave us short going forward. But I don't think Kante is quite good enough technically to be playing further up, so how about the technically superior Jorghino swapping positions with Kante? Jorghino's lack of pace would not hurt the team if he was further up.

Time will fix the hole between the midfield and defense though and we should be pressing high enough to so the ball doesn't even get that far. At the moment the back line isn't pressing up with the midfield quick enough.

7 minutes ago, Dixon said:

I cannot see time fixing the big, glarring problem of a slow Jorghino in front of this mainly slow back four. I see us leaking goals galore. However, I can see this back four being ripped up by this time next year.

We can't have both Kante and Jorghino in from of the back four as that will leave us short going forward. But I don't think Kante is quite good enough technically to be playing further up, so how about the technically superior Jorghino swapping positions with Kante? Jorghino's lack of pace would not hurt the team if he was further up.

He might not be quickest runner, but he's the quickest mentally. He has the next pass in his head before he receives the ball, and has a clear map of the pitch in his head at all times. It's been mentioned on here before - he's more of a Pirlo than a Makelele. Pirlo made the 'pivot/deep-lying play-maker' role his own and won the World Cup with Italy in that position, plus countless Scudettos/team of the world cup/team of euro 2012/serie a player of the season a number of times, all from that position. And he offered very little defensively - probably less that Jorginho believe it or not!

22 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Time will fix the hole between the midfield and defense though and we should be pressing high enough to so the ball doesn't even get that far. At the moment the back line isn't pressing up with the midfield quick enough.

Exactly this, its what Sarri himself has said, he wasnt happy with our defence dropping deep and then not closing the gap up to midfield. Its a legacy of our past few managers that will need to to adjust. Jorginho`s supposed lack of pace has nothing to with it at all.

Let's not press the panic button yet. He can't be a Makalele covering the back 4 while stringing 90+ passes a game. The only thing we need right now is patience, and accept we will conceded some goals with this system. There we will be a lose or 2 coming up, but it's worth it if we ever going to get away from the Jose/Conte type of 'instant success' football. City's defence was shcoking in Pepe's first season, they were conceding 3 or 4 goals with possession nearing 70%, it took time to get to where they were last season.

5 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Let's not press the panic button yet. He can't be a Makalele covering the back 4 while stringing 90+ passes a game. The only thing we need right now is patience, and accept we will conceded some goals with this system. There we will be a lose or 2 coming up, but it's worth it if we ever going to get away from the Jose/Conte type of 'instant success' football. City's defence was shcoking in Pepe's first season, they were conceding 3 or 4 goals with possession nearing 70%, it took time to get to where they were last season.

YEah bought 200m worth of defenders............that played a bigger role for me.

53 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Time will fix the hole between the midfield and defense though and we should be pressing high enough to so the ball doesn't even get that far. At the moment the back line isn't pressing up with the midfield quick enough.

Zeta posted a very good analysis video in the arsenal match thread, which I think one or 2 should have little watch of. 

skip to 4:30.

All problems that can be fixed on that training ground. 

'Jorginho and Kanté need to swap places' is going to be the new 'David Luiz/Gallas/any centre back with a modicum of pace and technical ability should play in midfield', isn't it?

24 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

'Jorginho and Kanté need to swap places' is going to be the new 'David Luiz/Gallas/any centre back with a modicum of pace and technical ability should play in midfield', isn't it?

What I hope we don't do is fall into the trap of what England did with Lamps and Gerrard. Keep trying to fit them both in even though everyone could see it never worked.  Yes, give it time, but if its not working and clearly affecting the balance of the team then sadly one will have to make way. 

 

21 minutes ago, Dixon said:

What I hope we don't do is fall into the trap of what England did with Lamps and Gerrard. Keep trying to fit them both in even though everyone could see it never worked.  Yes, give it time, but if its not working and clearly affecting the balance of the team then sadly one will have to make way. 

 

Problem with Lamps and Gerrard was that they were players with very similar strengths and weaknesses. Kante and Jorginho are very different and compliment each other nicely, just needs some adjustment time

46 minutes ago, Dixon said:

What I hope we don't do is fall into the trap of what England did with Lamps and Gerrard. Keep trying to fit them both in even though everyone could see it never worked.  Yes, give it time, but if its not working and clearly affecting the balance of the team then sadly one will have to make way. 

I see what you mean, but I don't think it's particularly applicable for Kanté and Jorginho. In theory they should complement each other perfectly. 

I am really quite excited about our midfield prospects (a far cry from as recently as six months ago when we were crying out for fitness and basic competence).

In Kanté, Jorginho, Barkley, Kovacic, Loftus-Cheek, Drinkwater and Fabregas, we have a great deal of depth, a wide range of very different styles, and a huge amount of promise. Most of these players are in their early to mid-twenties as well.

His final ball and vision is just excellent.

His link-up play with our attackers is exquisite, his touches and passing was so crisp all game.

His dictating of the game and switch of play was a menace for Arsenal so many examples I can show you of this.

The way he plays with the ball is such a huge upgrade on Matic, he's so tidy with it, he knows where to play it, he always makes himself available to pass the ball to, he's also aware and great under pressure. Ball retention and distribution is an absolute A+

Only criticism is his defensive side of things, he made 2 grave errors in this game, first Mikhitaryan miss just after we went 2-0 he should have tracked him, Mikhi was free with space and missed an opportunity he should have scored, the fault lies mostly with Jorginho for not tracking. He also didn't cover Mikhi again when he squared the ball into Iwobi (luckily Iwobi missed otherwise it would have been 3-2 just before halftime), if he had covered for Alonso and kept tracking Mikhitaryan who was free on the edge of the box as he should have done that chance would never have occurred.

This is a side of his game that needs to improve otherwise we will leak goals, other than that I see some great potential and I'm very confident he will fit into this side well, I have no f**king idea what Stewart Robson is talking about. 

Players like Jorginho always bring out the worst in pundits.

 

On one hand you have pundits who, upon Jorginho making a 5 yard backpass, condescendingly tell us that we just don't "get" Jorginho and what he offers to the team, how we just don't comprehend his tactical and technical brilliance and no one can pass a ball five yards like he can.

 

On the other hand you have pundits who, upon seeing Jorginho doesn't run like a headless chicken, immediately dismiss him as a liability and a soft, a bit feminine even, no place in the thunderous masculinity of English football. 

2 things the English pundits love : talk up a manager getting sacked, bash a foreign player because he's not 6ft 3 and could kick people like Roy Keane

No wonder Pep desired him so much, we actually caught a citeh target, and next thing destination Chelsealand ensued

Edited August 22, 20187 yr by Ballack & Blu

4 hours ago, Ballack & Blu said:

No wonder Pep desired him so much, we actually caught a citeh target, and next thing destination Chelsealand ensued

I said in the match day thread that it was massive that we got there ahead of City. If they got him, he would have taken them on to a totally different level. They are already really good as it is, with him in the side, they could dominate.

I find the new position of N'golo very intriguing. He is fast, good dribbler, he is closer to the problematic area for us - the wings. All he needs is time and confidence. 

Jorginho will be great defensively if the team plays as a team. It is about time to press together, to cover ourselves in a good attacking formation. Jose and Conte didn't teach these guys how to defend, some of them were already prepared, sometimes they counted on the number behind the ball.  Sarri will have to teach them. I think Jorginho should play where he plays right now in order to achieve this style. I can't see this happening with N'golo in front of the defense, we need a good, confident passer right there. Kante can still use his advantages. 

Edited August 22, 20187 yr by Giordano_Bruno

Just gonna drop a bit of knowledge on the forum here.... Stewart Robson is a complete idiot/

 

You may go back to your normally scheduled day

2 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

I said in the match day thread that it was massive that we got there ahead of City. If they got him, he would have taken them on to a totally different level. They are already really good as it is, with him in the side, they could dominate.

Most def.........they would be a bit scary with him, pep cant have been happy losing him.

The guy oozes class very few players can dictate the game like he does, brillinat player.

Love this comment from Nainggolan. When asked about his most difficult opponent, Roma's Belgian star Radja Nainggolan replied: "I must name Jorginho, because it is very difficult to mark him out of action. He distributes the ball very quickly, and you get tired running after it. It takes a lot of energy to prevent him from executing his plan."

He reminds me of a taller, albeit not as good, Andrea Pirlo. 

I'd say he has the ability to be just as good as Pirlo. Sure he doesn't have the long range shooting ability that Pirlo had (yet) but his passing is on par. The speed that he can see and make a pass is up there with the best i've ever seen. Cesc was good but i think Jorginho might just be better.

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I'd say he has the ability to be just as good as Pirlo. Sure he doesn't have the long range shooting ability that Pirlo had (yet) but his passing is on par. The speed that he can see and make a pass is up there with the best i've ever seen. Cesc was good but i think Jorginho might just be better.

Dont get too exicted after just a couple games

Just now, JJP said:

Dont get too exicted after just a couple games

Its not just a couple of games, you can see his passing ability for the last few years. There's a reason Pep wanted him.