Just now, axman2526 said:

Stick with Lamps until his contract is up them reassess would be my vote. But if we had to go with one immediately I would sooner look at the now departed PSG manager.

Hell no. Tuchel is completely overrated and plays horrible football. 

The combination of Lampards standing at this club and the promise shown in his first season show to me that he deserves the full 3 seasons before we think about getting someone else in. And that's despite my own frustrations with aspects of our play and his management etc, add in the f**king pandemic and the league being (arguably) as competitive as it's ever been and it really shouldn't be surprising to anyone we are where we are at the moment. He deserves the time to see where he can get this group of players.

Also, it was so obvious from their shocking run and the coming of our annual lethargic run that we were going to lose that I'm not even factoring the loss into my opinion.

I see it differently, ideally Frank lasts the season and we finish strongly showing progress.

However if the performances drop and Frank fails to get us playing well then it is time for a new face.

We shouldn't let sentiment for Frank get in the way of the clubs progress.

28 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Reasonable take there. But again, it can't all just be blamed on the players, Arsenal beat us 3-1 with a C team, our best 11 bar Ziyech, there's no excuse. 

He has to get the best out of the players, if he can't do that then he isn't top manager material. You'll notice that I'm not actually criticising his recent comments, I think he's doing the right thing, the players need to take responsibility, but so is Frank. If the players keep playing this way, it's the manager who will have to go. 

I agree and the defeat to Arsenal is one of the most disappointing for a long time. But we cannot continue sacking coaches every time we get a bad run of results. Ancelotti, Mourinho. Conte all of them fantastic coaches, sought by most top clubs. They all did well but were ultimately replaced as they couldn't maintain things. We don't have a devine right to success - it has to be earned and I think Lamps needs to be tougher and if players continuously let him down, stop persevering with them. 

I honestly don't see too many options out there. Folk are talking about Tuchel - just sacked by PSG and achieved very little in the game. Could see that going well!!

No, as disappointing as result results and performances have been I hope the club show faith in Lamps and see us ride this through. If things get REALLY bad (like they did under Mourinho's second spell), then I'm allowed to change my mind!

 

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by Nibs

51 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

To be fair Lampard will play Mount most of the time anyway and probably Kante as well.

Arsenal had a Cup game against Man City after we had played our last game before having to play against Arsenal and El Nenny, Martinelli, Lacazette started that game so we can't really blame this on fatigue. It was Lampard's decision to include James and Chilwell from the start and he put Kovacic in the starting lineup after he didn't even play 30 minutes against West Ham and Wolves but he regretted it and changed him after the first half so it wasn't really a fatigue issue. 

Someone said that Arsenal players just wanted it more. We didn't really show up, only Pulisic and CHO played like they had something to prove but it's pretty obvious that tactically Lampard hasn't been getting the best out of Pulisic and Werner, he insisted on Werner playing at the position where Pulisic used to carry us last season and Pulisic needed to adapt on the other wing because of it and that takes some time so no wonder he hasn't made any goal/assist and even if Tammy is scoring goals for us he can spend some time not being seen in games at all.

It was one of those games where a lot of things just went wrong, Arsenal scored from the penalty spot, from a free kick and their 3rd goal was basically a total fluke. I'm not saying it as an excuse, Arsenal showed that they wanted to win while we went missing. 

 

The point was that we have 9 spots which pick themselves the 2 spots which potentially are still up for grab are CF and RCM, the other players have pretty much been playing Week in week out. With Arsenal arteta brought in a number of new players which completely freshened things up for them and it showed, they had more energy and hunger whereas we appeared leggy and fatigued. 

This is no excuse for the performance but it just goes to show that we may have a big squad but we don't have players challenging for the first team spot. The drop from first teamer to backup is huge especially in the backline, if you change anyone in our back 5 we will see a huge drop in quality hence why Lampard would rather play half fit full backs rather then trust the alternatives. 

57 minutes ago, Slojo said:

Is this really the standard now though? Should we not be pushing for and demanding better? 

I do agree that anyone who expects a title challenge is being unrealistic, but we have to see an improvement. This absolute state that we are in right now, doesn't really give me much of an improvement, it looks the same. The keeper situation is sorted, brilliant, but the players are switching off again at pivotal moments. 

I'm not asking for Frank to be sacked, not right now with the games we've got. But I do think the club should be shortlisting managers and making calls to prepare, which they no doubt will be. I don't want to see this team to slump to the bottom half of the table come January and February, that will be awful. 
 

I get your point, and I’m as pissed off as anyone with yesterday’s performance, which I thought disgraceful. But as @coco says, not long ago we were all annoyed at the coming and going of managers. So nothing wrong with sticking up with Frank Lampard for this season and see how we do. It’s during this period that we’ve been going through a slump in the last few seasons ( we lost to Bournemouth last season just before Christmas if I remember correctly), and you can see that our players have no energy. Annoying, yes, disgraceful losing to an Arsenal side that’s not going down this season because the likes of Sheffield are doing really bad, yes, but let’s pull together through this bad patch. We’ve seen improvements in certain areas of play, keep positive, the league is long and all teams are going to go through dips in form. And this is a strange season with many games with little rest in between.

And yeah, I’m annoyed at all those that crawl out of their caves every f**king time we lose. There are also positive things to discuss and good days to come and post, don’t just f**king come when we’re down.

COYB!!

I stayed away from this for forum yesterday, the defeat was bad enough but some on here seem to come alive when we lose.

I 've never seen Frank as angry as yesterday, he is emotionally invested in our club, he feels it like a fan.

I'm as baffled as anyone, I have criticism of things, but ultimately I support the team.

come on Chelsea !

 

24 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

I stayed away from this for forum yesterday, the defeat was bad enough but some on here seem to come alive when we lose.

I 've never seen Frank as angry as yesterday, he is emotionally invested in our club, he feels it like a fan.

I'm as baffled as anyone, I have criticism of things, but ultimately I support the team.

come on Chelsea !

 

And we want to see exactly that. It is either the making of his time as our manager, or the end of it. 

He dumped Alonso for poor attitude we hear. What will he do with those who showed a poor attitude and did not give enough. Will the likes of Gilmour and Anjorin and other unused players get a chance or do we keep playing those who are not doing well enough or those in positions they are not the answer for?

This Arsenal game could well be a real blessing in disguise 

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by axman2526

Anyone else feel we lose every game in midfield. Physically we’re not at it, technically unable to receive from defense and pass thru to attack, which itself has bear zero support. I can see why Lampard wants Rice so bad as he’d be the only one out there with the balls to take charge. Our midfield is passive. Let’s look at the numbers for PL to date:

Appearances / starts / goals / assists / mins

Kante 15 / 15 / 0 / 1 / 1,325

Mount 14 / 13 / 1 / 3 / 1,170

Havertz 13 / 10 / 1 / 1 / 785

Kovacic 11 / 7 / 0 / 1 / 576

Jorginho 9 / 6 / 3 / 1 / 567

Now like most stats, devil is in the detail. Take out Jorginho’s 3 goals (all pens) and we have a total of 2 goals and 7 assists in 4,713 (78.5 hours) of collective football. You could argue the assists are papering over the cracks with Mounts all being corners, but that is an asset this season. 
 

So there it is to me. Our midfield is scoring one goal and assisting two goals every 39 hours of collective football this season from open play. It’s stats like this that show me why Kovacic didn’t make it at Inter or Madrid - it looks good but no end product (Willian mk2). 

4 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

Anyone else feel we lose every game in midfield. Physically we’re not at it, technically unable to receive from defense and pass thru to attack, which itself has bear zero support. I can see why Lampard wants Rice so bad as he’d be the only one out there with the balls to take charge. Our midfield is passive. Let’s look at the numbers for PL to date:

Appearances / starts / goals / assists / mins

Kante 15 / 15 / 0 / 1 / 1,325

Mount 14 / 13 / 1 / 3 / 1,170

Havertz 13 / 10 / 1 / 1 / 785

Kovacic 11 / 7 / 0 / 1 / 576

Jorginho 9 / 6 / 3 / 1 / 567

Now like most stats, devil is in the detail. Take out Jorginho’s 3 goals (all pens) and we have a total of 2 goals and 7 assists in 4,713 (78.5 hours) of collective football. You could argue the assists are papering over the cracks with Mounts all being corners, but that is an asset this season. 
 

So there it is to me. Our midfield is scoring one goal and assisting two goals every 39 hours of collective football this season from open play. It’s stats like this that show me why Kovacic didn’t make it at Inter or Madrid - it looks good but no end product (Willian mk2). 

And when you consider Lampards  goal scoring record from midfield !

  

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

What does he play then?

Anything that suits his team, the squad of players he has. It is a complete myth he plays some dead, all-out-defense football. He averaged more goals per game at Juve than SAF did at United or Poch at Tottenham.

We changed literally every year and he changed how we played.

First year was a narrow 4312 with 4 classic midfielders, lots of possession, moving the ball around etc.

Second year tried that again, was awful, changed back to 352 then to 451 and struck teams on counter attacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t99oVhQ6N8

Third year tried again with 352, was awful, changed to 4231 with 4 attackers, Pjanić and Khedira in midfield. Mix of both seasons before. Lots of possession and deadly counter attacks.

Fourth year was a mix of both 433 and 4231, highest scoring in history of Juventus.

Fifth year was the most pragmatic one. Left with an awful midfield and Ronaldo upfront, slowed down the passing game a lot, maybe too much, tortured teams with sheer quality and crosses to Mandžukić and Ronaldo

 

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by ILCAML

1 hour ago, Imran_CFC said:

The point was that we have 9 spots which pick themselves the 2 spots which potentially are still up for grab are CF and RCM, the other players have pretty much been playing Week in week out. With Arsenal arteta brought in a number of new players which completely freshened things up for them and it showed, they had more energy and hunger whereas we appeared leggy and fatigued. 

This is no excuse for the performance but it just goes to show that we may have a big squad but we don't have players challenging for the first team spot. The drop from first teamer to backup is huge especially in the backline, if you change anyone in our back 5 we will see a huge drop in quality hence why Lampard would rather play half fit full backs rather then trust the alternatives. 

Some of our most convincing performances and/or wins came from when we played more simple and with players in the starting lineup that Lampard usually doesn't prefer to choose anymore;

4:0 Krasnodar with CHO, Havertz, Jorginho, Rudiger, Azpilicueta and Werner playing as CF,

4:0 Sevilla with Emerson, Rudiger, Azpilicueta, Havertz, Jorginho, Kovacic, CHO and Giroud as CF,

4:0 Palace with Azpilicueta, Jorginho, Havertz, CHO and Werner playing wide,

3:0 Rennes with Jorginho and Werner playing wide,

3:0 Burnley with Havertz and Werner playing wide.

3:0 West Ham most recently with Jorginho and Azpilicueta.

I don't think that it's that simple like you say because we had these players last season and we managed to secure top 4 with them, clearly they are not that bad. Almost whenever CHO got his chance he took it well, Havertz in his normal role was already impactful, Azpilicueta and Jorginho as captains did their roles well too.

We have more talent to choose from than Arsenal. Yet they beat us causally in the first 45 minutes, even without their best player, in the end of the day it was Lampard's decision to put James and not Azpilicueta and so on... 

I think that Azpilicueta and Emerson have done a decent job to cover for James and Chilwell respectively.

 

Lampard signed a 3-year contract in the Summer of 2019; I think it's highly unrealistic to even contemplate him filling that if we finish 6th or lower this season in particular if it's United and Leicester finishing ahead of us. If he sees Tottenham in that mix as well what chance is there Roman thinks 'ah, he's got the talent to turn this around'. 

If that happens, which is entirely realistic, then do you think he can just go to Roman and say 'Sorry boss, another 110m on Declan and Perisic will solve the job... and don't forget that expensive CB that you promised!' 

I also worry that our players wouldn't be such a huge fan of that; we speak about needing Ziyech as a player to rely / build the team around but Ziyech didn't leave Ajax to finish outside of the best - in fact he didn't want to leave unless an ambitious, big club came in for him. And as much as Havertz has been sh*t, nothing cancels out the fact that he was absolutely one of the hottest prospects before he joined. 

The Arsenal performance was absolutely the worst I've seen in the past few years - worse than the 3-0 / 4-0 drubbings against Bournemouth or the 6-0 against City. One of our closest rivals, a rival that had one win in ten, had stopped us winning a trophy earlier this year, while Chelsea themselves came under fire because of their recent performances - added fact that Arsenal were missing their best player and their most competent CB, and we had our two first choice fullbacks back, is having our first shot on target in the 85th min good enough? Absolutely deplorable. I cannot get over how bad that was. 

If Chelsea end up losing both of Leicester / Man City coming up then I think his position would become untenable. Add Aston Villa before that? He'll be given the Carlo treatment. 

 

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by MANoWAR

19 hours ago, Slojo said:

I envy how you can be optimistic after a performance and result like that. But I just can't see it, if we can play that bad against such a sh*te side, there's truly no hope this team can be title challengers under Frank. 

It's happening again, last season it was all going great until November and we hit a slump, it's the same once again this season. Because realistically, this is our November given the one month delay this season. It's just not good enough, and I don't see the evidence for how that can be turned around. This is a results business, I don't think we should sack Frank given the fixtures we've got coming up. But the board right now should be aiming to make a replacement and shortlisting the best available managers that can utilise this group of players to their best ability. 

No way on this earth should we be losing to a side like that with the players we have, absolutely no way, but it's happened. People talk about Klopp and Pep in their first years in the PL, but Klopp and Pep were already proven winners and built World Class teams, Lampard started management just over two years ago and hasn't won anything, and given the recent performances it's starting to make sense. 

I'm not going to pretend that other managers haven't had bad spells here, like Conte or Mourinho, but they still won things. With the team that we have, there's no way we should be playing this badly or losing the games we are, we have to be doing better. 

Honestly I wouldn’t have minded if this slump was just a run of draws but the fact that we are losing these games is what has me annoyed.

The lack of Plan B and being proactive is certainly missing with Lampard atm.

I would add that assistants are hugely important in a team and apart from Morris whom is inexperienced himself cant name the other ones. Lampard needs an experienced head in the backroom team to offer some support and perhaps a bit of tough love too. 

2 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

Anyone else feel we lose every game in midfield. Physically we’re not at it, technically unable to receive from defense and pass thru to attack, which itself has bear zero support. I can see why Lampard wants Rice so bad as he’d be the only one out there with the balls to take charge. Our midfield is passive. Let’s look at the numbers for PL to date:

Appearances / starts / goals / assists / mins

Kante 15 / 15 / 0 / 1 / 1,325

Mount 14 / 13 / 1 / 3 / 1,170

Havertz 13 / 10 / 1 / 1 / 785

Kovacic 11 / 7 / 0 / 1 / 576

Jorginho 9 / 6 / 3 / 1 / 567

Now like most stats, devil is in the detail. Take out Jorginho’s 3 goals (all pens) and we have a total of 2 goals and 7 assists in 4,713 (78.5 hours) of collective football. You could argue the assists are papering over the cracks with Mounts all being corners, but that is an asset this season. 
 

So there it is to me. Our midfield is scoring one goal and assisting two goals every 39 hours of collective football this season from open play. It’s stats like this that show me why Kovacic didn’t make it at Inter or Madrid - it looks good but no end product (Willian mk2). 

This is so spot on. Not talked about enough. Havertz was supposed to be that guy.  But he is not ready...I know he had covid and it affected him Greatly, but in league games he has shown flashes of being a good player. But no consistency at all.  What is our midfield answer. ?  We need creativity.  I wouldn't be against playing Ziyech in midfield in an advanced position. That keeps CHO in lineup on the right. Pulisic on the left and whoever is in form up top. I don't think its a crazy idea. 

Despite all the doom and gloom around here of late, we're currently just 7 points off the top. It's just been such a bizarre season so far. It's not just us.

I'm convinced patience no longer exists in football, not even in the slightest.

And I can't for the life of me understand why it's considered understandable when proven managers like Klopp or Pep take a couple of years to build a consistent side capable of winning trophies, whereas inexperienced managers like Frank are expected to deliver instantly in order to prove themselves? Where's the logic in that? If the top, experienced managers require time and a ton of investment to deliver consistent results, what makes anyone think Frank could or should do it sooner?

I'm in no way saying that Frank doesn't deserve to be criticized here. He's made mistakes and has been too stubborn at times with his selections in my opinion. It's just sad to see just how quickly people are willing to turn on him. Maybe he isn't fit to manage a club of this stature so soon in his career, though how will we ever find out if people scream for him to be sacked every time things don't go our way? Give him and the team some time. Last season was by all means a success all things considered. Let's wait and see how things pan out this time around. There's still plenty of games to play in a hugely bizzare and unpredictable season.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Some of our most convincing performances and/or wins came from when we played more simple and with players in the starting lineup that Lampard usually doesn't prefer to choose anymore;

4:0 Krasnodar with CHO, Havertz, Jorginho, Rudiger, Azpilicueta and Werner playing as CF,

4:0 Sevilla with Emerson, Rudiger, Azpilicueta, Havertz, Jorginho, Kovacic, CHO and Giroud as CF,

4:0 Palace with Azpilicueta, Jorginho, Havertz, CHO and Werner playing wide,

3:0 Rennes with Jorginho and Werner playing wide,

3:0 Burnley with Havertz and Werner playing wide.

3:0 West Ham most recently with Jorginho and Azpilicueta.

I don't think that it's that simple like you say because we had these players last season and we managed to secure top 4 with them, clearly they are not that bad. Almost whenever CHO got his chance he took it well, Havertz in his normal role was already impactful, Azpilicueta and Jorginho as captains did their roles well too.

We have more talent to choose from than Arsenal. Yet they beat us causally in the first 45 minutes, even without their best player, in the end of the day it was Lampard's decision to put James and not Azpilicueta and so on... 

I think that Azpilicueta and Emerson have done a decent job to cover for James and Chilwell respectively.

 

We have a better squad then Arsenal and our league position last year and so far this year proves that, my points were focused around specifically the Arsenal game and how we seemed more leggy then Arsenal. I do agree with you that Lampard should be rotating some of the squad players however I think Lampard wants the team to play a certain way which is similar to Liverpool, this involves creating overloads in the wide areas with overlapping fullbacks and have his wingers drift inside into pockets of space somewhat similar to Mane & Salah.

This means that the 3 Central midfielders operate as the engine room of the team and cover spaces in behind and recover the ball, with Azpi we get the defensive solidity but he cannot get up and down the flank as he used to and Emerson still has question marks over him in terms of his positioning. 

Injuries to Ziyech, Pulisic and Werners terrible form have created issues for Lampard but the biggest problem in my view is the lack of preparation time for the coaching staff to change things around. We need to remember that this squad is new and young and it isn't simply a case of telling the players we are shifting formation and tactics and everything will come together, the coaching team needs to have time with the team to implement and prepare them for changes and currently the coaching staff just do not have the time. 

I am sure once the busy schedule settles down somewhat we will start seeing changes to the team alongside formations and tactics, we need to have patience as fans and trust Frank & Co. 

1 hour ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

Honestly I wouldn’t have minded if this slump was just a run of draws but the fact that we are losing these games is what has me annoyed.

The fact that we lost to that Arsenal team is what's eating away at me. 

3 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

Anyone else feel we lose every game in midfield. Physically we’re not at it, technically unable to receive from defense and pass thru to attack, which itself has bear zero support. I can see why Lampard wants Rice so bad as he’d be the only one out there with the balls to take charge. Our midfield is passive. Let’s look at the numbers for PL to date:

Appearances / starts / goals / assists / mins

Kante 15 / 15 / 0 / 1 / 1,325

Mount 14 / 13 / 1 / 3 / 1,170

Havertz 13 / 10 / 1 / 1 / 785

Kovacic 11 / 7 / 0 / 1 / 576

Jorginho 9 / 6 / 3 / 1 / 567

Now like most stats, devil is in the detail. Take out Jorginho’s 3 goals (all pens) and we have a total of 2 goals and 7 assists in 4,713 (78.5 hours) of collective football. You could argue the assists are papering over the cracks with Mounts all being corners, but that is an asset this season. 
 

So there it is to me. Our midfield is scoring one goal and assisting two goals every 39 hours of collective football this season from open play. It’s stats like this that show me why Kovacic didn’t make it at Inter or Madrid - it looks good but no end product (Willian mk2). 

Wasn't Havertz the signing to get us goals from midfield...maybe but we need more than one player.  Mount can score..if he plays in the right position.  While many fans are not liking what they are seeing from Mason, IMO he is the most energetic and isn't afraid to try things albeit they don't always come off.  But since Lamps retired our midfield has been goal shy. shot shy and easy to play around.  Now the defence seems settled its time to sort out the midfield.  

48 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

We have a better squad then Arsenal and our league position last year and so far this year proves that, my points were focused around specifically the Arsenal game and how we seemed more leggy then Arsenal. I do agree with you that Lampard should be rotating some of the squad players however I think Lampard wants the team to play a certain way which is similar to Liverpool, this involves creating overloads in the wide areas with overlapping fullbacks and have his wingers drift inside into pockets of space somewhat similar to Mane & Salah.

This means that the 3 Central midfielders operate as the engine room of the team and cover spaces in behind and recover the ball, with Azpi we get the defensive solidity but he cannot get up and down the flank as he used to and Emerson still has question marks over him in terms of his positioning. 

Injuries to Ziyech, Pulisic and Werners terrible form have created issues for Lampard but the biggest problem in my view is the lack of preparation time for the coaching staff to change things around. We need to remember that this squad is new and young and it isn't simply a case of telling the players we are shifting formation and tactics and everything will come together, the coaching team needs to have time with the team to implement and prepare them for changes and currently the coaching staff just do not have the time. 

I am sure once the busy schedule settles down somewhat we will start seeing changes to the team alongside formations and tactics, we need to have patience as fans and trust Frank & Co. 

You have a great insight and I liked you post but I thought that the whole idea was to play Mount and Havertz as the 2 number 8's while someone like Kante does most of the defensive work while they focus on attacking and pressing. That would be a clear reason why Lampard wants Rice.

But if Mount is to just provide with his energy off the ball then it's maybe not a coincidence that he hasn't had much of any end product this season part from getting assists from the corner kicks. In that system we wouldn't get the best out of Havertz either and then it would be a big question why Lampard wanted Havertz in the first place, if he wanted a more defensive oriented midfielder he should have never bought Havertz, maybe that also means that it's not a coincidence why Lampard played Havertz in so many position already, this can turn out to be a very hard season for Lampard if he doesn't know how to get the best out of Werner and Havertz but it would be really surprising to me if he actually misjudged those players.

11 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You have a great insight and I liked you post but I thought that the whole idea was to play Mount and Havertz as the 2 number 8's while someone like Kante does most of the defensive work while they focus on attacking and pressing. That would be a clear reason why Lampard wants Rice.

But if Mount is to just provide with his energy off the ball then it's maybe not a coincidence that he hasn't had much of any end product this season part from getting assists from the corner kicks. In that system we wouldn't get the best out of Havertz either and then it would be a big question why Lampard wanted Havertz in the first place, if he wanted a more defensive oriented midfielder he should have never bought Havertz, maybe that also means that it's not a coincidence why Lampard played Havertz in so many position already, this can turn out to be a very hard season for Lampard if he doesn't know how to get the best out of Werner and Havertz but it would be really surprising to me if he actually misjudged those players.

I remember listening to Matt Law who stated that Havertz was on Chelsea's radar before Frank was appointed and if we didn't have a transfer ban we would've most likely signed him in Frank's first summer window. Frank did speak to Kai before he signed but this seems more of a club signing then one which Frank truly pushed for. 

I think Frank really likes Kai and appreciates what he brings to the team and he can afford to play him in Central midfield alongside Kante and Mount who both have the industry to fill in defensively. Things have just not worked well for us this season, when Kai starting hitting some decent form he was hit with Covid, Ziyech was starting to hit top gear and he picked up an injury & now we've got both full backs not fully fit. 

Only Frank knows what he wants to achieve and what he wants his first 11 to look like but unfortunately for him he just hasn't had a chance to work on a plan B and truly gel the squad together due to the sheer volume of games. 

I personally want to see Frank try 4-2-4 with a front 4 of Pulisic, Werner, Kai & Ziyech. 

6 hours ago, Slojo said:

The fact that we lost to that Arsenal team is what's eating away at me. 

I understand the sentiment. It's an incredibly disappointing loss, but all hope isn't lost either.

We just need to start getting on a good run of form sooner rather than later. Beat Aston Villa, and it will take the edge off slightly.

First 78 games as coach

• Klopp (Liverpool) = 40 wins, 23 draws, 15 losses (143 points)
• Guardiola (Man City) = 53 wins, 15 draws, 10 losses (174 points)
• Solskjaer (Man Utd) = 41 wins, 18 draws, 19 losses (141 points)
• Lampard (Chelsea) = 41 wins, 16 draws, 21 losses (139 points)

Lampard's coaching record at this stage is comparable to Klopp and Solskjaer at the same stage.

Klopp had reached the Europa League Final (2016), but had no trophies to his name at this stage.

Guardiola went trophyless in his first season, and hadn't won anything at this stage either, though his success in domestic competitions was soon approaching with a very strong squad and successful second season.

Solskjaer hasn't won anything, let alone made a final in any cup competition at this stage.

Lampard hasn't won anything, but made an FA Cup Final which we lost.

At around 80-85 games into his tenure (January 2017), Klopp was beginning to get criticized for a poor run of form as the article below demonstrates, so it's evident that things can turn around in certain circumstances.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/38784286

Edited December 28, 20205 yr by Jezz

I am really hoping the team has a real reaction. I am looking them running rings around Villa players. We need everyone to be sweating their balls off from minute 1. Villa is very organized and with Grealish they are super-dangerous. Anyway we need to look like Chelsea the bigger club and stop being scared of sides we are facing. 

I really think if we lose this Frank has his last chance against City and if he loses that Roman will make the visit. Bigger names have given a lot less time in the hot seat.

Anyway I have a feeling the team makes a real response and fights for these two massive games for results and saves Franks career. Something feels so right having Frank at the helm so this sad December is too easy way of letting him go.