Poor Callum... just to think he could be playing for a real team right now. A team which doesn't continually use him as a scapegoat or a token. Maybe if we were to sell him then buy him back for £50m he'd be taken seriously, on his own merits?

Tuchel has probably erased a month's worth of goodwill and momentum with both the player and the fans with his pointless charade. This is especially the case considering Callum's replacement went on to do sweet f**k all in the game (and have worse body language).  

f**king ridiculous.

39 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Seen this kind of thing plenty of times in the past with a few of our managers over the years. I remember Mourinho especially used to like to take a younger player off when things weren't going perfectly for the team. Tuchel would never do that to an experienced player. It's always easier, maybe even cowardly, to put the blame on the kid.

100% agree Scott. Piss poor man management. 

45 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Seen this kind of thing plenty of times in the past with a few of our managers over the years. I remember Mourinho especially used to like to take a younger player off when things weren't going perfectly for the team. Tuchel would never do that to an experienced player. It's always easier, maybe even cowardly, to put the blame on the kid.

I mean, it worked with Joe Cole.

Feel like people are going slightly overboard here. Tuchel and CHO seems to have a great relationship by all accounts and I expect them to have a talk and be completely fine by this evening.

Wouldn't at all surprise me if he starts against Atletico actually. 

Edited February 20, 20215 yr by Sindre

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

I mean, it worked with Joe Cole.

Feel like people are going slightly overboard here. Tuchel and CHO seems to have a great relationship by all accounts and I expect them to have a talk and be completely fine by this evening.

Times have changed though, and we have seen more often than not that this kind of man management doesn't have the same effect anymore. I personally don't believe the situations are the same either. I don't think Tuchel subbed Hudson-Odoi to give him a kick up the ass, I think it was to shift the focus onto Hudson-Odoi's performance rather than his own tactical errors throughout the game.

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

I don't think Tuchel subbed Hudson-Odoi to give him a kick up the ass, I think it was to shift the focus onto Hudson-Odoi's performance rather than his own tactical errors throughout the game.

Couldn't disagree more if I tried to be honest.

 

Callum wasn’t the problem.. Werner didn’t even touch the ball in the second half.. a half decent forward with minutes on the pitch would be scoring more..

It’s annoying this is in the press and become a focus post-game, if any player is going to get that it should be Zouma, Ziyech or Kovacic. 

1 hour ago, PloKoon13 said:

Poor Callum... just to think he could be playing for a real team right now. A team which doesn't continually use him as a scapegoat or a token. Maybe if we were to sell him then buy him back for £50m he'd be taken seriously, on his own merits?

Tuchel has probably erased a month's worth of goodwill and momentum with both the player and the fans with his pointless charade. This is especially the case considering Callum's replacement went on to do sweet f**k all in the game (and have worse body language).  

f**king ridiculous.

Says more of the players mindset if he is that shaken by getting subbed off. We need fighters and strong minded players - not a shrinking violet who crumbles and sulks when something doesnt goes their way.

57 minutes ago, Jangz said:

Callum wasn’t the problem.. Werner didn’t even touch the ball in the second half.. a half decent forward with minutes on the pitch would be scoring more..

What chances did Werner miss? The amount of times he makes a run, but isnt played in is ridiculous. Now, IF we play him in, and he keeps falling over his own feet, then fair enough - but we dont play the ball! Instead, it is tippy tappy backwards/sideways rubbish.

Tuchel clearly wants CHO to be the game changer.

A long time ago I discussed some people here when they said that in their opinion CHO has a higher ceiling than Pulisic - Those people might be proven right in the near future of 1 season only since it looks to me that Tuchel holds CHO in such a high regard that he doesn't accept anything less but a clinical performance from him.

Tuchel might just turn CHO into a very dangerous and complete player in due time, I have high hopes since Tuchel seems to know just how much CHO can do.

I really hope that CHO takes this as a challenge because if he works hard and focuses hard, he can become an amazing player and a legend.

Tuchel should carry on playing him RWB, he looks better there.

15 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Tuchel clearly wants CHO to be the game changer.

A long time ago I discussed some people here when they said that in their opinion CHO has a higher ceiling than Pulisic - Those people might be proven right in the near future of 1 season only since it looks to me that Tuchel holds CHO in such a high regard that he doesn't accept anything less but a clinical performance from him.

Tuchel might just turn CHO into a very dangerous and complete player in due time, I have high hopes since Tuchel seems to know just how much CHO can do.

I really hope that CHO takes this as a challenge because if he works hard and focuses hard, he can become an amazing player and a legend.

This is the way I see it he seems to rate him extremely highly more that most young players at club and he's looking for a reaction he's looking to push him to fulfil his potential 

31 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

What chances did Werner miss? The amount of times he makes a run, but isnt played in is ridiculous. Now, IF we play him in, and he keeps falling over his own feet, then fair enough - but we dont play the ball! Instead, it is tippy tappy backwards/sideways rubbish.

Werner can’t link up play at all .. half the time he over hits/under hits misplaces quite simple balls.. if you can’t do this then the ball is always getting recycled back and there is no pressure being put on the opponents... yes we can play him in but when jostling with defensive deep lines first goal is important that happens when you do the first piece right.. once you score you find more spaces.. 

3 hours ago, Nibs said:

Thought he was frustrating again today so no problem with the decsion.

I want to see him trouble defenders like Foden, like Rashford, like Barnes at Leicester. Instead it always seems he bottles it and takes the easy option. Terrible ball into the box just before he was subbed today. Could have put the ball anywhere but kicked it straight at a saints defender.

Just maybe CHO needs  a rocket up his arse to wake him up and today he got that rocket!

He was frustrating but so were many others. But it is like to single out CHO and say you are the most useless one out there which he wasn't. That is what irks people.

40 minutes ago, STATS said:

He was frustrating but so were many others. But it is like to single out CHO and say you are the most useless one out there which he wasn't. That is what irks people.

I know, but just maybe TT was pissed off with him for not following instructions so thought he'd make the point in the most profound way possible.

I wouldn't have done it. I'm too soft and could never "sub a sub" and I would have put Giroud on for Werner, but it's down to TT and if we do see a positive reaction from CHO and he starts ripping it up, then we'll look back and think maybe it was good psychology.

4 hours ago, Deino said:

Something along the lines of 

We brought in Callum Hudson-Odoi but I was not happy with his attitude, energy and counter-pressing. I took him off and we demand 100%, I feel he is not in the right shape to help us. It was a hard decision but tomorrow it is forgotten

 

 

If he felt that CHO was even trying then he made the right decision. I can accept it when players have a bad game as long as they're giving their best, but a good player having a bad game because (for example) he's sulking after being left out of the first 11 is never acceptable.

4 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I know, but just maybe TT was pissed off with him for not following instructions so thought he'd make the point in the most profound way possible.

I wouldn't have done it. I'm too soft and could never "sub a sub" and I would have put Giroud on for Werner, but it's down to TT and if we do see a positive reaction from CHO and he starts ripping it up, then we'll look back and think maybe it was good psychology.

Interesting perspective here. I think to sub a sub you have to have a really good reason and i must say it wasn’t clear to me. TT may have made a bit of a rod for his own back too as now any time CHO isn’t in the lineup, eyebrows will be raised. On the other hand, maybe it works longer term as you say. Would add that TT has shown more faith in CHO than his two predecessors combined, so there may already be a bit of a cushion of goodwill that means CHO doesn’t take it too badly. Let’s see.

I'm not remotely fussed about what he did to Odoi today. My biggest beef with Odoi when I was willing to let him go to Bayern was his attitude and of effort when he got game time. He struck me as someone who thought he was entitled by default. 

That seemed to have gone in the past month or so with Tuchel putting faith in him but it was back with a bang today. He coasted after coming on and once again needs a kick in the arse. Obviously didn't help that Ziyech came on and was equally sh*t.

Subbed the wrong guy, should have been James, who missed the best chance of the game soon after. I think Tuchel is more annoyed with his end product, doubt it's sending a message. Tuchel made changes again this game, unfortunately it didn't go well for him, CHO change just a small part of it. Giroud had a great record against Southmapton, should have started and at least came on via half time.

Nothing original really. Tuchel just copied page 101 of the Jose Mourinho "book of motivational management for youngsters"

 

14 hours ago, Term_X said:

It’s annoying this is in the press and become a focus post-game, if any player is going to get that it should be Zouma, Ziyech or Kovacic. 

Ziyech was on the pitch for 10 minutes. 

Ziyech showed a much worse performance and looked like he couldn't give a f**k. 

CHO, that decision did baffle me. I think Tuchel is playing with fire there, it's too early to throw players under the bus. There is an argument that players are too soft, and it's true, but times have changed with player power. The last thing you want is to players rebelling against you, they'll win every single time. 

I don't even think Callum was that bad? I've seen much worse, especially this season. I can't understand it, it was his movement and pass that lead to our equaliser, he did change the game. Even though granted, he was making a lot of mistakes. 

A pitiful performance was that one from Alonso, who offered absolutely f**k all in attack, same with James. And don't even get me started on Timo Werner. 

17 hours ago, PloKoon13 said:

Poor Callum... just to think he could be playing for a real team right now. A team which doesn't continually use him as a scapegoat or a token. Maybe if we were to sell him then buy him back for £50m he'd be taken seriously, on his own merits?

Tuchel has probably erased a month's worth of goodwill and momentum with both the player and the fans with his pointless charade. This is especially the case considering Callum's replacement went on to do sweet f**k all in the game (and have worse body language).  

f**king ridiculous.

I have never understood why it is so horrible to be subbed early or twice. The team comes first. If this is handled well inside the squad there should be no problems...all this talk comes from outside. If their relationship is healthy we shouldn't get our feelings hurt for nothing. 

15 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Tuchel should carry on playing him RWB, he looks better there.

Agreed, I was surprised he didn't replace James yesterday. 

That's twice now that Tuchel has selected CHO in that role behind the striker and he's looked lost both times. 

He's suited to playing in the wider positions and I just question how suited to those more central roles he is. 

17 hours ago, dansubrosa said:

Said he wasn’t happy with CHO’s attitude, body language and energy.

And he subs him for Zyech who has the worse body language and attitude I’ve seen for ages, if you didn’t know better, you’d think someone upstairs was telling him to play the expensive signings?