53 minutes ago, Ledgerson said:

Poor form aside, what are we actually doing in training? And I do not mean tactically.

I think we practice with the back 4, Jorginho and the keepers at passing sideways and backwards. Everyone else has the week off. 
 

If we’d play a front three of Rudiger, Willy and Christensen/Zouma we might actually move the ball in the right direction. 

12 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

He’s done a great job definitely, no doubting that but saying no one else could have done better is abit far fetched imo. If we gotten say a Conte we may have done even better, with a tighter defence. Pointless debating this anyway he’s done well. I think with better players we’d be an attacking force under Lamps but the defence worries me, I don’t know if he’s going to improve on that. We’ll see with time I guess.

Conte would just bitch and moan because he didn't get the players he wanted. He would have us sit back every game and take a cowardly defeat like he did against City rather than show faith in the players he has and tell them to give it a go. Conte is one of the last coaches I would want in charge of this group right now, he would suck the life out of them.

Edited February 17, 20206 yr by Scott Harris

15 points in the last 13 games in the league. Dire form and we will soon be out of the top 4/5. We need a few wins on the bounce to pick ourselves up. 

10 minutes ago, dansubrosa said:

He’s done a great job definitely, no doubting that but saying no one else could have done better is abit far fetched imo. If we gotten say a Conte we may have done even better, with a tighter defence. Pointless debating this anyway he’s done well. I think with better players we’d be an attacking force under Lamps but the defence worries me, I don’t know if he’s going to improve on that. We’ll see with time I guess.

Get Keegan back, with his mantra of just score more than we concede, but only on the premise we start scoring Shed loads

Lots of people saying Frank can't be expected to do any better with this squad. Wrong. Our squad is a lot better than 1 point per game, which is what it's been for the last 15 games. We're just not being coached well. That's evident from every display, bar the odd one like Tottenham away, where we actually played controlled, intelligent, disciplined football. We're just a ramshackle usually. Movement is so poor, that's the most glaring thing for me. There is no structure or pattern to our play, and our players don't seem to know what they're supposed to be doing. Set-pieces again, we're not being coached properly. Yes belief has ebbed away but this is more about coaching than motivation and psychology. I believe the motivation is there. I don't believe the work on the training ground is any good. We can talk about the ref but ultimately we scored one and they scored two, and they've beaten us three times, and they are sh*t. I want Frank to be given time but thus far I'm not very impressed with what I've seen. Yes there are mitigating factors but some of you lot are overstating this. We should be a lot better than we are, but I'm afraid we have a very, very inexperienced coach and it shows.

Lampard is overachieving so far.

His main striker is a 22 year old from the academy.

His main wingers are a 21 year old Pulisic that is injury prone and a 31 year old Willian that never scored loads in any season.

His main midfield player is a 21 year old Mount from the academy.

His captain is 30 year old Azpilicueta playing Left Back since we have no other option.

The fact that we are still top 4 is massive.

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Lampard is overachieving so far.

His main striker is a 22 year old from the academy.

His main wingers are a 21 year old Pulisic that is injury prone and a 31 year old Willian that never scored loads in any season.

His main midfield player is a 21 year old Mount from the academy.

His captain is 30 year old Azpilicueta playing Left Back since we have no other option.

The fact that we are still top 4 is massive.

Agreed. When got off to an indifferent start I thought midtable was likely. But that purple patch in Autumn raised some expectations. I think now we are gradually settling into the position where I thought we would be. If we do make top 4 at this point it will probably be down to the averageness of other teams, as much as anything. We have a limited squad with some talented youth, and an inexperienced management team. To expect much more would be unrealistic

11 minutes ago, forbzy said:

Agreed. When got off to an indifferent start I thought midtable was likely. But that purple patch in Autumn raised some expectations. I think now we are gradually settling into the position where I thought we would be. If we do make top 4 at this point it will probably be down to the averageness of other teams, as much as anything. We have a limited squad with some talented youth, and an inexperienced management team. To expect much more would be unrealistic

Specially now since Kante has been having injury problems for the bigger part of the season, lucky for us top5 would still lead to Champions League.

30 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

Lots of people saying Frank can't be expected to do any better with this squad. Wrong. Our squad is a lot better than 1 point per game, which is what it's been for the last 15 games. We're just not being coached well. That's evident from every display, bar the odd one like Tottenham away, where we actually played controlled, intelligent, disciplined football. We're just a ramshackle usually. Movement is so poor, that's the most glaring thing for me. There is no structure or pattern to our play, and our players don't seem to know what they're supposed to be doing. Set-pieces again, we're not being coached properly. Yes belief has ebbed away but this is more about coaching than motivation and psychology. I believe the motivation is there. I don't believe the work on the training ground is any good. We can talk about the ref but ultimately we scored one and they scored two, and they've beaten us three times, and they are sh*t. I want Frank to be given time but thus far I'm not very impressed with what I've seen. Yes there are mitigating factors but some of you lot are overstating this. We should be a lot better than we are, but I'm afraid we have a very, very inexperienced coach and it shows.

Not often I disagree with you Davey, but I definitely do here. You accept there are mitigating circumstances but feel they are overstated. Fair enough it's your view, but I have similar view on what you perceive as being down to poor coaching. Your statement on poor movement, which you feel is the most glaring weakness, is a case in point. I actually feel our forward movement and passing speed, for much of this season anyway, has been the most impressive and enjoyable to watch since we had Duff and Robben in the team. What has let us down is the quality of the finishing. And I'm not aiming that solely at the strikers. We don't have enough goals chipped in from our midfielders, certainly not for the amount of balls and players we commit into the opposition box. 

Set pieces I would tend to agree on. Like you I am not a fan of zonal marking Davey but player for player we are a relatively small team and arguably Zouma and Giroud  aside we don't have anyone else who is aerially dominant. Likewise we currently have no central midfielders that offer a real physical presence along with being decent on the ball. 

No doubt we are a work in progress but I do see progress. I actually thought we would finish 6th or 7th this season but of course I would hate to see top 4 slip away now when we have been up there for so long. However, bottom line for me is Frank has taken over at a difficult time, in difficult circumstances and he may well be learning on the job. But the respect and admiration I feel in the way he has conducted himself, communicated with the press and represented our club throughout it all means he will get my total backing wherever we finish this season.

We're obviously entering the most important part of the season now with a lot to still play for. Teams are fast catching up to us on the ladder, Champions League knockout stages are about to start and we're still competing in the FA Cup.

In terms of Frank's current tenure as coach, in which he's coached 37 games I often break it down into three parts.

All competitions

• 1-8 games = 2 wins, 4 draw, 3 losses (25% winning record) = August 2019 - September 2019
• 9-19 games = 9 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss (81.8% winning record) = September 2019 - November 2019
• 20-37 games = 7 wins, 4 draws, 7 losses (38.9% winning record) = November 2019 - Present

9 wins in 11 games when we were on a good streak, but 9 wins in 26 games in the other parts of the season.

Premier League

• 1-6 games = 2 wins, 2 draws, 2 losses (33.3% winning record) = August 2019 - September 2019
• 7-12 games = 6 wins, 0 draws, 0 losses (100% winning record) = September 2019 - November 2019
• 13-26 games = 4 wins, 3 draws, 7 losses (28.6% winning record) = November 2019 - Present

6 wins in 6 games during the winning streak, but 6 wins in 20 games in the other parts of the season.

I think what's keeping the faith of the supporters in addition to the obvious extenuating factors and the fact that Frank is a club legend is the winning streak we had during late September to early November which showed Frank's capabilities as coach. We played some fantastic football during that time and the confidence of the club was sky high. We lost momentum after the November international break and haven't been able to replicate what we did during this strong run of form.

Undeniably, Frank needs to start getting more wins on the board or the pressure will be coming onto him soon enough. It's a harsh game, but our form in the last 2-3 months has been ordinary to say the least.

I'm still 100% behind Frank and backing him to get us going again.

 

Would like Frank to show the same steel he has shown with Kepa also on Batman and Christensen, because they are both blooming useless.

Starting with them was like playing with 9 men and even if Giroud can only play for 60 minutes it is 60 minutes more than Batman can manage.

We've hit a sour patch for a lot longer than I would've liked, I wanted to stay off the forum today because I was too pissed off with the game, but I've cooled down a bit now. Not a lot of options for Frank so I'm not going to get on his back, as sh*t as Michy has been I can see the logic. The problem I'm having is playing Christensen who's not playing well at all in my book and doesn't seem cut out for this league. Tomori has been exceptional for me albeit a lot of rusty areas and some poor passes I think he needs to play next to Rudiger. 

Now... Where do we go from here? I've been very squeamish with these fixtures since I saw them at the start of January, I'm not expecting a great deal and Spurs have been getting jammy as ever so I can't even fill myself with confidence against them. Lucky for us we do have a good run of games afterwards, discounting the Bayern games of course, it’s those run of games that I think will seal the deal for us. The problem is the transfer window, why on earth did we not sign anyone? Not even one player? We have two LB's and we are playing 31-year-old RB in their position and have been for a while. It’s pretty clear Frank doesn't rate our two LB's, so why did we decide that it would be a good idea to carry out the season with Azpilicueta as our starting LB? It's also obvious Frank doesn't rate our striker options and again nothing happened there. The board were obviously confident we would see Champions League out and get the business done in the summer, that's a big gamble and if it doesn't pay off it could set us back quite a bit. 

I think we are not as good as some of us think especially in the midfield and upfront.. they seem to be more names than real performers.. 

For a deep laying playmaker Jorginho can’t pass the ball more than 15 yards .. every time he tried a forward looking pass it led to a counter attack..

Kovacic on the other hand can run brilliantly with the ball but makes the wrong decisions in the final third.. also for some reason they refuse to pass to amount unless absolutely the only option..

Kante.. he has been injured for most of the season it’s been a blip.

upfront Pedro is past it .. Willian is dire in his end product and for all that once and skill the only thing he wants to do is cut inside.. bats is just not good enough for this football club..

these are the internationals who are supposed to carry us this season.. the fact that despite these blokes we are relying on 20/21 year olds to help us make the top4 tells me there is a lot of work to be done here..

His stubbornness is what gets me. Playing bats and christiensen when there is better players in the squad. Wtf gas tomori done ?  Giroud did more in 5 mins that that useless twat did the whole game 

why oh why are they continue to move the ball sideways or backwards is beyond belief. Last night a few players where automatically turning into trouble by going backwards. Are they being conditioned or coached to do this. 

The downward spiral in results and performances is worrying. I can’t see how it changes either as the team and Lampard seem very flat and negative. 

This is how our Premier League results stack up this season for the starting XI.

You'd think that if we have a better record when certain players start, then they'd be the "untouchables" ... the first names on the team sheet ... 

Last night's selections in red. Granted we had a few injuries last night, but still 6 players in the top half of this table were all on the bench rather than in the team ...  Alonso, Barkley, Tomori, Mount, Arrizabalaga, Zouma ...

I have no idea why he doesn't play Alonso or Barkley more often when we have such a strong record when they play. Ditto the best central defenders.

This seems a really dumb thing to do for an intelligent chap like Frank.

I think we need to utilise a 352 formation:

Kepa

Tomori, Zouma, Rudiger (CB's)

James, Alonso (WB's)

RLC (Barkley until fit), Jorginho, Kovacic (Central Mids)

Mount (Attacking Mid, Support Striker)

Abraham (Striker)

Azpi is counter productive for me and having those three at the back is more than enough. Alonso is a great threat from the left wing back position and James on the right.

That team alone has more goals than what we currently have used, and the system would work better to improving more support across the pitch.

 

 

Edited February 18, 20206 yr by Malcolm9

32 minutes ago, JM7 said:

The downward spiral in results and performances is worrying. I can’t see how it changes either as the team and Lampard seem very flat and negative. 

We will have to regroup in the summer.
Not getting someone capable of scoring goals in January was hard to take for Lampard as he saw the importance of that.
I don’t think yesterday came as a surprise to anyone, currently we have no-one(!) capable of scoring goals on any kind of regular basis. It’s just common sense that you will struggle big-time as we are indeed.

I don’t know how a club like Chelsea end up playing Batshuayi, Pedro and Willian up front in 2020 but we have somehow managed it.
 

9 minutes ago, Sindre said:

We will have to regroup in the summer.
Not getting someone capable of scoring goals in January was hard to take for Lampard as he saw the importance of that.
I don’t think yesterday came as a surprise to anyone, currently we have no-one(!) capable of scoring goals on any kind of regular basis. It’s just common sense that you will struggle big-time as we are indeed.

I don’t know how a club like Chelsea end up playing Batshuayi, Pedro and Willian up front in 2020 but we have somehow managed it.
 

Think this sort of hits the nail on the head.

All of the mistakes we can see Lampard making were to be expected, after all he is a young inexperienced coach and we all knew this. However being 4th is probably still exceeding expectations at the start of the season, they've only grown in stature because of our good run and Arsenal, Utd and Spurs shortcomings.

The most disapointing part for me is the boards failure to sign a goalscorer, as much as the defence is wobbly and conceding we are still making chances but since Tammy has gone cold we have no one to put them away and this is killing us. The Leicester game was a prime example, the amount of quality balls into the box from James in particualr warranted a goal but we have no one to finish it, had we had a Droga or Costa still we'd be walking out of that with a 3-2 win even with defencve frailties and we'd have picked up antother what 3+ points just from having someone capaple of scoring other than Tammy.

7 minutes ago, DukesOfHazard said:

Think this sort of hits the nail on the head.

All of the mistakes we can see Lampard making were to be expected, after all he is a young inexperienced coach and we all knew this. However being 4th is probably still exceeding expectations at the start of the season, they've only grown in stature because of our good run and Arsenal, Utd and Spurs shortcomings.

The most disapointing part for me is the boards failure to sign a goalscorer, as much as the defence is wobbly and conceding we are still making chances but since Tammy has gone cold we have no one to put them away and this is killing us. The Leicester game was a prime example, the amount of quality balls into the box from James in particualr warranted a goal but we have no one to finish it, had we had a Droga or Costa still we'd be walking out of that with a 3-2 win even with defencve frailties and we'd have picked up antother what 3+ points just from having someone capaple of scoring other than Tammy.

Some good points in here. For me I think we have the striker to lead the line. That is Giroud. He led the line well and critically bought others in when he came on. He needs to play. 

I think we're overachieving and what Frank has done with Tammy, Mount (who was great last night) and James is top notch. That said we still feel naive defensively. He needs to sort that quick smart. 

14 minutes ago, DukesOfHazard said:

 

The most disapointing part for me is the boards failure to sign a goalscorer, as much as the defence is wobbly and conceding we are still making chances but since Tammy has gone cold we have no one to put them away and this is killing us. The Leicester game was a prime example, the amount of quality balls into the box from James in particualr warranted a goal but we have no one to finish it, had we had a Droga or Costa still we'd be walking out of that with a 3-2 win even with defencve frailties and we'd have picked up antother what 3+ points just from having someone capaple of scoring other than Tammy.

Agree to some extent, but its a bit of dammed if you do dammed if you dont, we can assume that we were after a goalscorer in the Jan window but there just wasnt anyone of sufficient quality available. We would only complain if we got a panic buy in. I think we need to accept that this season is a bedding in one, and be happy at where we are (exceeding expectation) we will keep the best parts of this team together, cut off the dead wood and hopefully add a couple in summer then we can asses where the club is at.

Edited February 18, 20206 yr by Bonzodog29

I think:
-We have a good squad. Better than Leicester.
-We are only 10 points behind City. A club that is considered one of the best in the world.
-We know middle of the park but we don't know the boxes - > concede and don't score but have a high possession numbers
-We have 4-5 young players in key roles.
Very inexperienced.
-We lack confidence.
-We have massive injury troubles all season long
-We are building a bright future in expense of this season.
-Chelsea board don't expect CL spot
-Frank is doing well for a first season manager.
-Frank is still one of the smartest men in football.

18 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

Some good points in here. For me I think we have the striker to lead the line. That is Giroud. He led the line well and critically bought others in when he came on. He needs to play. 

I think we're overachieving and what Frank has done with Tammy, Mount (who was great last night) and James is top notch. That said we still feel naive defensively. He needs to sort that quick smart. 

I'm a fan of Giroud, would have started him last night and against Leicester. You could see how much Hazard, Pedro and Willian enjoyed playing with him when Conte was here and we could do with some of that.

Agreed with him work with Tammy, Mount and James! Under other managers they'd have been loaned out or sold and we'd have spent millions on Drinkwater and Zappacostas when we have better in the academy.

13 minutes ago, Bonzodog29 said:

Agree to some extent, but its a bit of dammed if you do dammed if you dont, we can assume that we were after a goalscorer in the Jan window but there just wasnt anyone of sufficient quality available. We would only complain if we got a panic buy in. I think we need to accept that this season is a bedding in one, and be happy at where we are (exceeding expectation) we will keep the best parts of this team together, cut off the dead wood and hopefully add a couple in summer then we can asses where the club is at.

I see what you  mean and like Spiller's point we have Giroud who is more than capaple but if Frank wanted something different and either there wasn't anyone available or the board didnt follow through which we have seen before.

Overall i'm still happy this season and with Zyiech coming in its looking promising lets just hope we can get a run of form going after these next two games, but with RLC, Pulisic, Tammy and Odoi to come back in hopefully at least the goalscoring can improve.

10 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Giroud can't get past the 60th minute and his level is poor Europa league teams, let's not make out he is some superstar because Batman is so poor, Giroud should not be in any top teams squad, board had a whole month to find a replacement.

OK, Ernie, exactly what strikers were available and willing to move did our sh*te board miss out on buying, and exactly why is it that you think they didn't buy them?

10 hours ago, Belfast_blue5 said:

............................ That was one of the worst Chelsea performances I have seen. .....................................................

There is nothing like a bit of sensationalist knee-jerk over-reaction to brighten up my day.  Obviously you don't watch Chelsea much.  That wasn't even the worst performance this year, and probably not even the worst performance this month.

Get a grip on reality and stop being such a diva queen.

10 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Last time Giroud started the game was against West Ham and he was the worst player on the pitch for 50-60 minutes.

Christensen has been a starter and has done a good job in his last 10 games, he only went off after he was hurt and that knock probably affected him right before the first goal.

I don't see any other argument needed to be defended here.

Giroud has had some good games, Batshuayi never has. This is coming from someone who vocally supported Michy for much of this season.

Zouma and Tomori have been better than Christensen all season. Christensen has been weak in the air his entire career, the knock wasn't the reason he lost his man and the header.

Jorginho is sh*t at the base of a midfield. Also doesn't work with Kante. Good job Kovacic was in the midfield to dominate for most of the game, easily our best player this season.