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Callum Hudson-Odoi

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2 hours ago, Andy North said:

Its so easy to over scrutinise recordings like this. You could say the hand in the back isn't really a hand and only fingers. You could say he was jumping over the leg, which was withdrawn at the very last second. I can see both sides of this but how they say this a clear and obvious error is questionable. It isn't.

For me VAR is the same as the ref deciding. It's somebodies opinion about what happened. I think slowing it down sometimes changes the dynamic of the incident. The ref is in a good position to see what happened and is closer than the cameras.

Every time I look at this I have a different opinion. Sometimes when I look at Callums feet when they are both off the ground I think its a dive and then when I see the leg out and the simultaneous push in back I think its a pen. Its not a clear and obvious error though.

The main issue with VAR is this clarity. 

Are we looking for the correct decision or are we looking for clear and obvious errors to be rectified. 

Both have issues as they are different intentions and there are always grey areas. Ajax goal against us wasn't a clear and obvious error but that was overruled. Some pens were given this weekend when they weren't obvious errors at all, some haven't been because they weren't. 

It's a mess and needs to go in my opinion. I prefer the debate about decisions, not the tech. 

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1 hour ago, bisright1 said:

Are we looking for the correct decision or are we looking for clear and obvious errors to be rectified. 

Both have issues as they are different intentions and there are always grey areas.

This is the crux of it for me. They got the use of the tech spot on in rugby, tennis, cricket etc etc, but football has made a right pig's ear of it, for reasons probably best known to the likes of Sepp Blatter, Platini and their ilk ...

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4 hours ago, bisright1 said:

The main issue with VAR is this clarity. 

Are we looking for the correct decision or are we looking for clear and obvious errors to be rectified. 

Both have issues as they are different intentions and there are always grey areas. Ajax goal against us wasn't a clear and obvious error but that was overruled. Some pens were given this weekend when they weren't obvious errors at all, some haven't been because they weren't. 

It's a mess and needs to go in my opinion. I prefer the debate about decisions, not the tech. 

At the moment VAR seems to be taking more out of the game than it is putting back in.

If, however, we can reduce the human element on offside decisions by putting sensors in the players shirts and the ball I think technology can immediately decide if its a goal and it should remain. On fouls I think it should go.

I hate all this confusion when a goal is scored.

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9 hours ago, Andy North said:

At the moment VAR seems to be taking more out of the game than it is putting back in.

If, however, we can reduce the human element on offside decisions by putting sensors in the players shirts and the ball I think technology can immediately decide if its a goal and it should remain. On fouls I think it should go.

I hate all this confusion when a goal is scored.

What about if it's their big noggin that's off-side, though?

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7 hours ago, GhostOfDembaBa said:

What about if it's their big noggin that's off-side, though?

It's not offside if the sensor in the shirt says it isn't. Rugby players current have some sort of heart/health sensor strapped to their backs so I cant see why footballers cant.

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4 hours ago, Andy North said:

It's not offside if the sensor in the shirt says it isn't. Rugby players current have some sort of heart/health sensor strapped to their backs so I cant see why footballers cant.

I doubt theres anything out there that would work to that speed and precision though.

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1 minute ago, dkw said:

I doubt theres anything out there that would work to that speed and precision though.

No i doubt it too, the technology we have is good enough, but for some reason our officials are doing a good job of making it look like a complete cock up.

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35 minutes ago, dkw said:

I doubt theres anything out there that would work to that speed and precision though.

I thought technology was instantaneous and precise.

If every player had a location sensor on his back and the ball had a pressure gauge inside, a central computer could easily determine when the ball was kicked and where the player was when that occurred. Simples.

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1 hour ago, Andy North said:

I thought technology was instantaneous and precise.

If every player had a location sensor on his back and the ball had a pressure gauge inside, a central computer could easily determine when the ball was kicked and where the player was when that occurred. Simples.

You are talking about a hell of a lot of processor power to do that simple solution... if the sensor was on the players back it would need to be able to monitor where his limbs where in relation to the sensor, so you would need multi angle cameras monitoring each player then extrapolating the body position from there. Also with a pressure gauge it would have to be sensitive enough to register even the slightest touch, so mush so that just about everything happening on the pitch would create a "noise" on the readings, All of this would be hugely expensive and even with some high spec computing power wouldnt be instant given the current limitations of bus speed. 

 

 

# nerdtalk

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34 minutes ago, Bonzodog29 said:

You are talking about a hell of a lot of processor power to do that simple solution... if the sensor was on the players back it would need to be able to monitor where his limbs where in relation to the sensor, so you would need multi angle cameras monitoring each player then extrapolating the body position from there. Also with a pressure gauge it would have to be sensitive enough to register even the slightest touch, so mush so that just about everything happening on the pitch would create a "noise" on the readings, All of this would be hugely expensive and even with some high spec computing power wouldnt be instant given the current limitations of bus speed. 

 

 

# nerdtalk

I expect even GPS isn't that precise or accurate in the timescales were looking at, its milliseconds and centimetres and as you say the amount of data needing to be analysed would be immense.

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Only CHO knows for sure whether that was a dive but I can see why it could have been interpreted that way. It looked to me as though he anticipated the contact with the defender who then pulled his leg away at the last second. A lot of players seem to draw penalties this way in the modern game by aiming to get the contact on the way past. You could call it clever play from the striker and certainly makes it more difficult from the defensive point of view. Its a gamble from the striker I think because most of the time they probably will get enough contact to either get a penalty or at least avoid a yellow card. I wouldn't have such a big issue with the yellow card if this kind of thing was consistently applied. But players like Mane seem to get away with the same type of thing every week.

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I think he dived, but it wasn't clear as day no, especially in real time. 

Either way he's 18, if he did dive it's something he needs to learn from, diving is starting to become more counterproductive now and I think that's a good thing. 
 

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Needs to improve his decision in front of the goal.

He can do everything right until the final decision. We need goals!

He had a decent peformance against United but I expect some better finishing ability.

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Very poor tonight, probably the worst I have seen him play for us so far. It's hard to pick between him or Pulisic right now, they are both very up and down with their form. I didn't expect Willian to be our most impressive winger at any point this season, but currently he is.

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Said it a couple of times in the match-thread, he's actually far slower then he used to be.

Didn't want to admit it before tonight but he's definitly lost a step or two. And that's a massive shame as his pace was one of his most dangerous weapons.

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Have been surprised at his finishing this season. He looks a confident type but maybe getting a bit nervous in front of goal playing with the big boys. His two finishes with the England u23s a couple of weeks ago were sublime. 

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15 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Still only 18 coming back from a hard to get over injury. He will need time to develop and get experience. He won't deliver consistently for years imo.

Going by everything that's gone before in the Roman era, he's not going to get years to start performing consistently.

I'm pretty sure Frank and his team will be given 2 or 3 seasons to win or seriously challenge for the title, so CHO will need to reach those levels.

So far in his career, he's been OK in Cup games against low/moderate level teams, but his level of performances against half decent Premiership teams haven't been very encouraging.

He's got a very long way to go before he's anywhere near the potential world great player some on here think he's going to be.

 

 

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i think this game was what most expected our season to be like.... more than anything we lacked quality.. but the good news is 3-4 of these are not going to start a game for us anytime soon..i think CHO was much better in the second half and much more impactful once moved to the left..

the problem was our play in general.. Kovacic and BG pushed too high up the pitch and credit where its due Utd pressed as a team to stop us playing from the back.. I think Bats inspite of the goal along was the worst player on the pitch.. problem was with we unable to play through the back going long was the only option.. but Bats couldnt make anything stick.. which meant both CHO and Pusilic had to come much deeper to collect the ball ... restricting their opportunities to create..

In the second half lampard adjusted this and we really conceded against the run of the play... having said that... these are young lads they will be inconsistent.. there was enough time left when we conceded but we became impatient and lost the plot.. biggest positive was the performance of the two CBs they were hardly troubled.. for the first Alonso had a brain fart and the second was just a great 1/100 strike..

 

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16 hours ago, Bonzodog29 said:

You are talking about a hell of a lot of processor power to do that simple solution... if the sensor was on the players back it would need to be able to monitor where his limbs where in relation to the sensor, so you would need multi angle cameras monitoring each player then extrapolating the body position from there. Also with a pressure gauge it would have to be sensitive enough to register even the slightest touch, so mush so that just about everything happening on the pitch would create a "noise" on the readings, All of this would be hugely expensive and even with some high spec computing power wouldnt be instant given the current limitations of bus speed. 

 

 

# nerdtalk

Easy. There's a lawn mower that knows where your lawn is and how big it is and knows where the edges are. We put a man on the moon 50 years ago and we send and control space ships over 4 billion miles into space so this is easy. It really wouldn't be expensive at all. The offside decision is made by the sensor and the location of the sensor and not by where a players arms or legs are.

All that is now was once dreamed.

#makeitso

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It's unbelievable people to express disappointment with CHO like they really thought he'd immediately replace Hazard and his influence/statistical contribution. If that's the case, it cant be helped, I guess. 

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